05-03-2021, 12:27 AM
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#11661
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First Line Centre
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Reinhard - Monahan swap would not move the needle at all. Rather go full rebuild at that point and prospects/picks.
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05-03-2021, 07:11 AM
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#11662
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper
If there's a way to do Eichel for Monahan +++ then I'd be all for that.
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You do understand that the league has seen Monny play over the last two years, and he's likely approaching negative value due to his contract?
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05-03-2021, 07:39 AM
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#11663
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
You do understand that the league has seen Monny play over the last two years, and he's likely approaching negative value due to his contract?
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Just because he's faltered this season doesn't give him negative value?
It's funny how many people on here think they're the next NHL GM.
His value is still extremely strong, he's still a consistent 20g+ scoring C in the NHL every year since coming into the league.
Last 6 seasons he is ranked 34th amongst Forwards in the NHL @ 343pts
Johnny is ranked 11th @ 419
Ovechkin 10th @ 425
He's not having a good season that's for sure, but 3/4 of the team is having a terrible season. You don't bet everything on the outlier seasons and call players booms or busts.
His value is still there, he's still an extremely effective player but this season has been an abysmal ride for the Flames not named Zebulon.
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05-03-2021, 07:43 AM
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#11664
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First Line Centre
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I don’t agree that Monahan has negative value. He is like the 40th best C in the NHL. He’s a young, high-end #2 C. That’s a valuable player.
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05-03-2021, 08:02 AM
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#11665
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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And Buffalo could use Monahan as their 1C stopgap while Cozens eventually surpasses him.
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05-03-2021, 08:14 AM
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#11666
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Appealing my suspension
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Just outside Enemy Lines
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The way I would see Monahan is as a guy who has shown a steady decline for 2 and a half years. After that hot start to the 2018/19 season the production has really slid. He's not a number one center and I am very concerned that he can still score 20 goals and 50 points. If he can't score at those levels than he's not worth his salary. Even if he was ROR defensively that's a big salary for that production. I put a lot more stock in the last 2 1/2 seasons vs the previous 4 1/2. So he might be tougher to trade because he still has 2 years left at a salary that is not great value if he can't regain his previous form.
__________________
"Some guys like old balls"
Patriots QB Tom Brady
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05-03-2021, 08:14 AM
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#11667
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Monahan has some trade protection let’s not pretend he is waiving that in order to play for the worst organization in the league as part of a deal where their franchise player is coming back
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05-03-2021, 09:03 AM
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#11668
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
Monahan has some trade protection let’s not pretend he is waiving that in order to play for the worst organization in the league as part of a deal where their franchise player is coming back
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Why not? They can only go up and Buffalo is pretty close to home for him.
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05-03-2021, 09:20 AM
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#11669
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Van City - Main St.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvanfan
The way I would see Monahan is as a guy who has shown a steady decline for 2 and a half years. After that hot start to the 2018/19 season the production has really slid. He's not a number one center and I am very concerned that he can still score 20 goals and 50 points. If he can't score at those levels than he's not worth his salary. Even if he was ROR defensively that's a big salary for that production. I put a lot more stock in the last 2 1/2 seasons vs the previous 4 1/2. So he might be tougher to trade because he still has 2 years left at a salary that is not great value if he can't regain his previous form.
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As do GMs.
People who post about his career stats or numbers vs his draft class are severely overestimating his current value.
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05-03-2021, 09:49 AM
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#11670
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny01
Monahan has some trade protection let’s not pretend he is waiving that in order to play for the worst organization in the league as part of a deal where their franchise player is coming back
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His trade protection is pretty weak. A lot weaker than Gaudreau's, who can literally pick his spot when his LNTC kicks in. All Monahan can do is specify 10 teams he won't go to. He can try to play a game with that, but long term it wouldn't serve him well to do so.
I've posted elsewhere, even in this bad year, his salary is the same as a lot of centres who score about the same or less. Names like Schenn, Stastny, Johanssen, Couture. None of them are number ones, obviously, but their production is about the same as Monahan's and some have lesser histories. In short, the Flames might have to retain a little, but it wouldn't be much.
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05-03-2021, 10:16 AM
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#11671
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM
His trade protection is pretty weak. A lot weaker than Gaudreau's, who can literally pick his spot when his LNTC kicks in. All Monahan can do is specify 10 teams he won't go to. He can try to play a game with that, but long term it wouldn't serve him well to do so.
I've posted elsewhere, even in this bad year, his salary is the same as a lot of centres who score about the same or less. Names like Schenn, Stastny, Johanssen, Couture. None of them are number ones, obviously, but their production is about the same as Monahan's and some have lesser histories. In short, the Flames might have to retain a little, but it wouldn't be much.
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Production is only part of the valuation. Most of those players are better - much better - at the non-scoring roles of being an NHL centre.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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05-03-2021, 10:23 AM
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#11672
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffFletcher
Production is only part of the valuation. Most of those players are better - much better - at the non-scoring roles of being an NHL centre.
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Fine. But Monahan is improving on those areas (that stats back this up and so does Sutter). And still none of those guys are 1Cs. My only point is that Monahan is not making modern 1C money. And because of the Neal contract and Tkachuk’s QO, the Flames can’t afford one right now.
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05-03-2021, 11:26 AM
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#11673
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Fort McMurray
Exp:
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I could see Minnesota wanting to upgrade their centre ice position and Monahan would be a massive upgrade on Bonino and Rask.
Monahan for Fiala
I could also see CBJ wanting to still compete next year with a new coach. They have excellent pieces in place already with Jones, Werenski, Laine, etc. Johnny could be viewed as a perfect setup man for Laine and another star player for their organization to give fans hope.
A deal around Johnny for Bjorkstrand + 1st (Toronto or Tampa)
Bjorkstrand is an underrated player who has played in a defensive system and thrived. He's a RHS RW with skill and clutch scoring signed longterm. I think he would thrive in Calgary and be a fan favourite.
Look at signing Danault in free agency as our defensive 2nd line C that can shutdown other teams top players and free up Lindholm to produce more. If possible, I believe Hall can now be signed at a reasonable (still expensive) contract.
Fiala - Lindholm - Bjorkstrand
Hall - Danault - Tkachuk
Mangi - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Ruzicka
Hanifin - Tanev
FA (Mccabe?) - Andersson
Valimaki - Stone
Markstrom
I feel like that's a team that can compete and roll 3 solid scoring lines that are all defensively responsible and difficult to play against. Probably unrealistic, just dreaming out loud lol
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05-03-2021, 11:29 AM
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#11674
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude Where's Makar?
I could see Minnesota wanting to upgrade their centre ice position and Monahan would be a massive upgrade on Bonino and Rask.
Monahan for Fiala
I could also see CBJ wanting to still compete next year with a new coach. They have excellent pieces in place already with Jones, Werenski, Laine, etc. Johnny could be viewed as a perfect setup man for Laine and another star player for their organization to give fans hope.
A deal around Johnny for Bjorkstrand + 1st (Toronto or Tampa)
Bjorkstrand is an underrated player who has played in a defensive system and thrived. He's a RHS RW with skill and clutch scoring signed longterm. I think he would thrive in Calgary and be a fan favourite.
Look at signing Danault in free agency as our defensive 2nd line C that can shutdown other teams top players and free up Lindholm to produce more. If possible, I believe Hall can now be signed at a reasonable (still expensive) contract.
Fiala - Lindholm - Bjorkstrand
Hall - Danault - Tkachuk
Mangi - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Ruzicka
Hanifin - Tanev
FA (Mccabe?) - Andersson
Valimaki - Stone
Markstrom
I feel like that's a team that can compete and roll 3 solid scoring lines that are all defensively responsible and difficult to play against. Probably unrealistic, just dreaming out loud lol
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Hmm don't think that makes us better at all.
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05-03-2021, 11:31 AM
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#11675
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Taking a while to get to 5000
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Also would not expect that large a turnover, especially via trade. Introducing 2 or 3 new players from the farm to go along with a trade that sees maybe 2 core players moved? Sure.
Half the forwards turned over in trades (or brought in via FA)? No chance IMO
Last edited by Toonage; 05-03-2021 at 11:36 AM.
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05-03-2021, 11:32 AM
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#11676
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Fort McMurray
Exp:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royle9
Hmm don't think that makes us better at all.
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I think that team is night and day better than what we are currently icing. Absolutely serious.
Fiala, Bjorkstrand and Hall are all top-line scoring forwards. They don't shy away from contact and put pucks in the net.
Danualt could take all our difficult matchups while still having Backlund on the third line to compliment.
I would go as far as saying the team above under Sutter would actually be very competitive and difficult to play against.
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05-03-2021, 11:34 AM
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#11677
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Saving the world one gif at a time
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I think we'll be lucky to see two players swapped out this offseason.
__________________
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05-03-2021, 11:42 AM
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#11678
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Fort McMurray
Exp:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonage
Also would not expect that large a turnover, especially via trade. Introducing 2 or 3 new players from the farm to go along with a trade that sees maybe 2 core players moved? Sure.
Half the forwards turned over in trades (or brought in via FA)? No chance IMO
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100%. I agree it's unrealistic. I was more or less having some fun dreaming out loud on a keyboard.
I want this team more than anything to contend. I just think that with hiring Sutter, and watching ownership year after year try and "win now" that we will see more "player for player" trades instead of picks and prospects.
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05-03-2021, 11:47 AM
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#11679
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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I think if Treliving is not fired then he is making a big trade even if he has to force it and have the deal look like a loss. He can’t run it back again after doing it the last 2 offseasons before this.
If they fire him I do wonder if the new GM ends up sitting back and evaluating if deals are not there to be made.
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05-03-2021, 11:52 AM
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#11680
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude Where's Makar?
I think that team is night and day better than what we are currently icing. Absolutely serious.
Fiala, Bjorkstrand and Hall are all top-line scoring forwards. They don't shy away from contact and put pucks in the net.
Danualt could take all our difficult matchups while still having Backlund on the third line to compliment.
I would go as far as saying the team above under Sutter would actually be very competitive and difficult to play against.
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Both trades are completely terrible:
Oliver Bjorkstrand totals: (career high)
Goals - 23
Assists - 29
Pts - 40
Kevin Fiala totals: (career high)
Goals - 23
Assits - 31
Pts - 54
Comparison:
Sean
G - 34
A- 48
Pts - 82
Johnny
G - 36
A - 63
Pts - 99
Johnny > Bjorkstrand
Monahan > Fiala
So we cant stand/want to get rid of our 2 "struggling forwards" and we're calling both the replacement players "TOP-Line scoring forwards"?
We are losing both trades, trading away the better player both times.
Terrible asset management and would cripple this franchise even further.
Sorry I cant agree here and would pass.
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