2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Strange Brew]

It seems the key on trades is to have patience. Guys like Hamonic and Duchene are guys that were known to be on the block for quite some time. Some would say their books clubs had their hands tied but in the end they got great value.

If you want to get the most value you have to make it known they’re available. However that happens among GM’s. And then be prepared to wait everyone out.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If the Leafs offer that for Gio you probably trip running so fast to the fax machine.

Yeah that was my point.

Don't close your mind in on one option when a team might over pay for another.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've said this a few times, but I truly believe the smartest thing Treliving can do in the next few weeks is let be known that he's possibly looking to move a defenseman for help up front.

Let teams come to him with their wants and wishes and zero in on what he wants to do.

If a team wants to massively overpay for one of the top three look at it.

There is no point in;

a) going on a "I'm shopping Brodie" escapade or a
b) "I have to trade one of them today" excursion

If the Leafs get silly and give you Marner, Kapenen, their 1st and 2nd for Giordano look at it.

If the Leafs offer Marner straight up for any of our Dmen then we make that trade all day. Hamilton for Marner is my dream “realistic” trade. It is realistic in regards to value but I just don’t see the Leafs considering moving Marner.

[H2SO4(aq)]

I’m really not that interested in trading a good defenseman (roster player) for draft picks. Seems counterintuitive. This might be a year where treliving just has to bite the bullit and accept that he over played his draft pick trading hand and stay pat. At this point the only mix up I want to see is a hockey trade.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Realistically you could get Nylander, Kapenen and a 2nd maybe a 1st for Gio which I’d heavily consider with the young depth we have on D.

Chicago should make that trade for Duncan Keith who is the same age (Keith 3.5 months older) as Gio and has been considered a much better defenseman (Norris voting) for 10 of the last 10 seasons.

Keith has a better contract 5.5 x 5 as opposed to Gio's 6.75 x 4

Should the Flames give up Tkachuk , Jankowski and 2019 1st for Keith??

of course not on all accounts ... realism comes into focus when asking what anyone would give up for a 34 year old d-man (not named Lidstrom).

Scott Niedermayer last season was when he was 36. He only stayed on to play on the Olympic team ..

Gio and Keith likely have 2 years left.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah that was my point.

Don't close your mind in on one option when a team might over pay for another.

But it is simply not realistic. I agree with your point but I don’t see a team in the league that would pay that much for a Dman that will be 35 early next season.

The Flames could probably squeeze Kapanen, 1st, 2nd for Gio and maybe a touch more but no way the Leafs trade a Nylander/Marner for any deal involving Gio. If Dubas did that he would be public enemy number 1 in Toronto.

[Mr.Coffee]

Calgary better get fantastic return if they’re trading one of their top 4 D.

Again, the problem was coaching. The players were not utilized well. So you’d be trading an asset in a “down cycle” and unlikely to realize full value. Better to go into the season, show that the players are better than they showed last season under a new coach, and then pull the trigger in the fall-Dec timeframe to get better return.

I just don’t like the timing of a deal now. I really don’t think they’ll get the kind of return to make sense of it. Sometimes standing pat is a good strategy too.

You can also then hopefully take advantage of a team that stumbled out of the gate that otherwise was a playoff hopeful after a couple trying months.

[sureLoss]

edit nm

[AC]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

If anyone wants to revisit the goalie situation last summer, McKenzie says on his latest pod cast Fleury had the choice to be traded to Calgary before the expansion draft but decided to go to Vegas instead.

Marc-Andre Fleury would have waived no-trade for the Flames
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...de-go-calgary/

Fleury said directly he would have waived to come to Calgary but the trade never materialized.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Calgary better get fantastic return if they’re trading one of their top 4 D.

Again, the problem was coaching. The players were not utilized well. So you’d be trading an asset in a “down cycle” and unlikely to realize full value. Better to go into the season, show that the players are better than they showed last season under a new coach, and then pull the trigger in the fall-Dec timeframe to get better return.

I just don’t like the timing of a deal now. I really don’t think they’ll get the kind of return to make sense of it. Sometimes standing pat is a good strategy too.

You can also then hopefully take advantage of a team that stumbled out of the gate that otherwise was a playoff hopeful after a couple trying months.

Treliving has been fairly vocal about blaming the players as much (or more) than the coaching for last season. He has hinted that the team is going to look different next year and with no pick I have a hard time seeing how that is accomplished without moving a Dman for a forward?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Chicago should make that trade for Duncan Keith who is the same age (Keith 3.5 months older) as Gio and has been considered a much better defenseman (Norris voting) for 10 of the last 10 seasons.

Keith has a better contract 5.5 x 5 as opposed to Gio's 6.75 x 4

Should the Flames give up Tkachuk , Jankowski and 2019 1st for Keith??

of course not on all accounts ... realism comes into focus when asking what anyone would give up for a 34 year old d-man (not named Lidstrom).

Scott Niedermayer last season was when he was 36. He only stayed on to play on the Olympic team ..

Gio and Keith likely have 2 years left.

Man did you miss the point.

I posted a trade that wouldn't happen as an example of a "getting your mind blown" offer from another team that may not happen if you head into the market with too narrow of a focus.

Thanks for digging in though, huge help.

Keith hit a wall this year, Giordano didn't. I think Giordano has another elite year, two more above average years, and an average year to roll out his contract.

That's value.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Treliving has been fairly vocal about blaming the players as much (or more) than the coaching for last season. He has hinted that the team is going to look different next year and with no pick I have a hard time seeing how that is accomplished without moving a Dman for a forward?

I would take what he said about players at sth meeting with a grain of salt. He seemed to have praise for too 4 dmen and most of top 9 forwards . No chance that he can improve this team with a legit top 6 forward by trading the Brouwer or stones. I know that our d prospects are looking good but I highly doubt your getting a 1st line rw for fox or Anderson . Like you said somebody out of top 4 are getting traded.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Man did you miss the point.

I posted a trade that wouldn't happen as an example of a "getting your mind blown" offer from another team that may not happen if you head into the market with too narrow of a focus.

Thanks for digging in though, huge help.

Keith hit a wall this year, Giordano didn't. I think Giordano has another elite year, two more above average years, and an average year to roll out his contract.

That's value.

I was responding to

Realistically you could get Nylander, Kapenen and a 2nd maybe a 1st for Gio

I don't think that is at all realistic.

Keith hitting a wall ? 32 pts --- 24 minutes a game on a team that did not have a NHL calibre goal tender.... one year away from being being a solid 4th in Norris trophy voting.

Will you consider it a wall if Gio falls by 6 pts and 1 minute/ game of ice-time in 2018-19?

Calling Gio's 2017-18 an elite year is a bit of stretch. Teams with an elite D-man don't finish 11 pts behind the last wild card playoff spot.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I was responding to


I don't think that is at all realistic.

Keith hitting a wall ? 32 pts --- 24 minutes a game on a team that did not have a NHL calibre goal tender.... one year away from being being a solid 4th in Norris trophy voting.

Will you consider it a wall if Gio falls by 6 pts and 1 minute/ game of ice-time in 2018-19?

Calling Gio's 2017-18 an elite year is a bit of stretch. Teams with an elite D-man don't finish 11 pts behind the last wild card playoff spot.

Eric Karlsson says hi

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I was responding to


I don't think that is at all realistic.

Keith hitting a wall ? 32 pts --- 24 minutes a game on a team that did not have a NHL calibre goal tender.... one year away from being being a solid 4th in Norris trophy voting.

Will you consider it a wall if Gio falls by 6 pts and 1 minute/ game of ice-time in 2018-19?

Calling Gio's 2017-18 an elite year is a bit of stretch. Teams with an elite D-man don't finish 11 pts behind the last wild card playoff spot.

So now Duncan Keith isn't an elite defenseman?

Erik Karlsson?

OEL?

Pietrangelo?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So now Duncan Keith isn't an elite defenseman?

Erik Karlsson?

OEL?

Pietrangelo?

Pietrangelo's team finished 1 pt out of the playoffs.

These are all good defensemen that have had elite years in the past and did not have an elite 2017-18 season. Which of these will get make anyone's list of the top-5 D-men that get vot s for the Norris?


As for Keith Bingo just said he hit a wall in 2017-18 and may be finished as an elite D-man.


Waiting for your response to

Keith hit a wall this year, Giordano didn't.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Treliving has been fairly vocal about blaming the players as much (or more) than the coaching for last season. He has hinted that the team is going to look different next year and with no pick I have a hard time seeing how that is accomplished without moving a Dman for a forward?

Sure but of course publicly he’s going to say everyone’s to blame. You can’t go public and say that season is on the coaches only as it implies the players don’t have to be accountable too. The best players had pretty good seasons for the most part. Giordano, Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton... all good seasons. The goalie was good too for the most part. So what went wrong? Horrendous coaching. Too much reliance on the bottom 6.

Treliving should have dealt with Gulutzan in December. Now we are stuck not knowing if a new coach could take this existing group to where we all think they should be, and now he’s going to make a very risky trade. I don’t like that type of asset management where you don’t take out variables to decision making when you have the chance to.

[CliffFletcher]

It seems pretty clear to me from multiple interviews that Treliving was very reluctant to fire GG, that he thought a big part of the problem was with how the players responded to adversity. His comment that this team is too young to lead itself wasn't so much a denunciation of GG as a criticism of a core group that he expected more out of.

I expect him to move a core piece and send a message to the team that he isn't farting around anymore - they better get onboard with that the next coach is selling.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Pietrangelo's team finished 1 pt out of the playoffs.

These are all good defensemen that have had elite years in the past and did not have an elite 2017-18 season. Which of these will get make anyone's list of the top-5 D-men that get vot s for the Norris?


As for Keith Bingo just said he hit a wall in 2017-18 and may be finished as an elite D-man.


Waiting for your response to

So you are arguing if a player has one year where his totals are down he is no longer elite? Well I guess Ovechkin is no longer elite.Crosby too.

[GoJetsGo]

Ricardow is doing what he always does: being obtuse to take indirect, trolling shots at the Flames and their fans.