Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Hackey

So basically if we didn't sign Glass and held on to Byron we would be 12-0 right now?

Maybe.

[smiggy77]

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Either reply or get lost.

Tell me what in my post you disagree with.

You must be fun at parties.

[Vinny01]

I have been a pretty big supporter of what Treliving has done in his time as GM with the Flames. He has made some fantastic trades to get quality assets for pending UFA’s. Glencross helped the Flames acquire Hamilton and Kylington giving them the extra picks needed in those deals. Parsons and Dube are 2 of the top prospects in the organization and they were drafted with picks from the Hudler and Russell trades.

This team appeared to be entering their Stanley cup window and he emphatically let the fan base know this by trading for a 35 year old goalie and giving up a 1st and 2 2nd round picks for a 27 year old Dman. His moves this summer signaled the Flames were all in with expectations being modestly set at 100pts for this team.

The team is currently on pace for 89pts and I have really started to question some of his moves. I doubted Gulutzan last year but was impressed enough by the end of the year to give the move a passing grade. Last year saw the Flames get swept by the Oilers, swept by the Ducks, and embarrassed in eastern Canada. This year they have once again failed to show up in big games including losing to a horrible Oilers team with major injuries on home ice.

Travis Hamonic is coming off a disastrous season and has not looked good in his time in Calgary. Treliving paid an incredibly high price for a Dman that by all accounts was brutal last season as well. The Troy Brouwer signing of 2016 was panned by many at the time and looks to be his worst move in free agency to date.

For the most part Treliving has done a good job building the prospect system and has made some very good trades. I do believe that his job should be secure and he should get st least one more coaching hire before he really feels the heat. Having said that if the pick he moved in the Hamonic trade (no protection at all on the pick) turns into a top 3-10 pick then perhaps that move should cost him his job?

There has been a lot of Gulutzan talk and rightfully so. At the end of the day Treliving built this team and traded futures to win now. Fairly reasonable time to bump this thread and discuss our GM in addition to the coach.

[Toonage]

I'm sure he feels pressure too. Not like the Flames don't have Maloney sitting on deck.

I like Treliving and think he's done a very good job to this point but he isn't infallible.

[Erick Estrada]

Treliving will have to answer for this if the team misses the playoffs and hands the Islanders a lottery pick. These are probably very difficult times for him as he wants to give his guy as long as possible to right the ship but also realizes the consequences and backlash heading in his direction if they fall short of at least making the playoffs. He’s already mortgaged too many futures and can no longer improve the team via trade unless it’s player for player. Flames will be a very intriguing story this winter.

[Strange Brew]

Hamonic for a top pick AND 2 seconds could really live in infamy if the Flames can’t pick it up here.

Opposing GM’s have enjoyed doing business with Treliving lately.

[CliffFletcher]

I know some people think this is conspiratorial thinking, but I wouldn't be surprised if Treliving was nudged by King/Burke/ownership to accelerate the shift into Win Now mode. The owners are desperately trying to get the public onside for arena funding, and nothing builds up enthusiasm for the team like a playoff run.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I have been a pretty big supporter of what Treliving has done in his time as GM with the Flames. He has made some fantastic trades to get quality assets for pending UFA’s. Glencross helped the Flames acquire Hamilton and Kylington giving them the extra picks needed in those deals. Parsons and Dube are 2 of the top prospects in the organization and they were drafted with picks from the Hudler and Russell trades.

This team appeared to be entering their Stanley cup window and he emphatically let the fan base know this by trading for a 35 year old goalie and giving up a 1st and 2 2nd round picks for a 27 year old Dman. His moves this summer signaled the Flames were all in with expectations being modestly set at 100pts for this team.

The team is currently on pace for 89pts and I have really started to question some of his moves. I doubted Gulutzan last year but was impressed enough by the end of the year to give the move a passing grade. Last year saw the Flames get swept by the Oilers, swept by the Ducks, and embarrassed in eastern Canada. This year they have once again failed to show up in big games including losing to a horrible Oilers team with major injuries on home ice.

Travis Hamonic is coming off a disastrous season and has not looked good in his time in Calgary. Treliving paid an incredibly high price for a Dman that by all accounts was brutal last season as well. The Troy Brouwer signing of 2016 was panned by many at the time and looks to be his worst move in free agency to date.

For the most part Treliving has done a good job building the prospect system and has made some very good trades. I do believe that his job should be secure and he should get st least one more coaching hire before he really feels the heat. Having said that if the pick he moved in the Hamonic trade (no protection at all on the pick) turns into a top 3-10 pick then perhaps that move should cost him his job?

There has been a lot of Gulutzan talk and rightfully so. At the end of the day Treliving built this team and traded futures to win now. Fairly reasonable time to bump this thread and discuss our GM in addition to the coach.

Lazar trade looks bad as well. He appears to be a borderline NHLer, 2nd rounder (weak draft or not) was an overpay.

That said - the team is playing better lately. It'll come.

[Stay Golden]

Last season Treliving got a pass because of weak goaltending even though it was his goalies. FYI it was Gulutzan's dysfunctional coaching that was the most glaring black eye; his coach. This year he has the goal tending but the same dysfunctional Gully.
Should Treliving take the heat, some heat? Guess that depends if the fans like being at the end of December 5th in their division, with their special teams numbers sitting near the basement PP ranked 21st and a PK ranked 25th.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I know some people think this is conspiratorial thinking, but I wouldn't be surprised if Treliving was nudged by King/Burke/ownership to accelerate the shift into Win Now mode. The owners are desperately trying to get the public onside for arena funding, and nothing builds up enthusiasm for the team like a playoff run.

I agree with this. People here tend to underestimate how much more important increasing revenues are to ownership than building a championship core. Most fans don't want to hear it, but having a team that stays on the cusp of winning it all is likely more profitable than a champion. So pushing into Win Now mode too early isn't likely much of a concern for Flames ownership, even if it somewhat diminishes the chances of building a champion here.

[dash_pinched]

DownGoesBrown with his trade grades for 2017:

Calgary Flames

Best deal: Getting Mike Smith from the Coyotes. I was skeptical at the time, but so far Smith has been exactly what they hoped they were getting.

Worst deal: As mentioned yesterday, giving up a second for Curtis Lazar seemed like a major overpayment on a longshot gamble.

To be determined: Whether Travis Hamonic can settle in; they’d better hope so, given the price they paid to get him.

Total trades: Six.

Overall grade: B. But if Hamonic gets back to his Islanders level, this could move into the A- territority.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/g...-trade-grades/

[Beninho]

If the Flames don't make the playoffs then yes Treliving will very much be in the hot seat for misjudging this team and Hamonics worth. If the Flames end up giving the Isles a lottery pick or even worse a top 3 pick that would go down as one of the worst trades in Flames history. Especially considering there are some very good players in this draft. Treliving has done a decent job but I still believe he is trying to fastforward the process too much and not letting the Flames become good organically through the draft and promoting players from the farm. Lazar was a completely useless move, especially when we have guys better in Stockton. Kulak looks to be a very effective 4-6 dman, Andersson seems to be trending that way as well and Valimaki could be in the NHL within 2 years. Hamonic is a good hockey player but the Flames did not need to pay a premium for a stay at home defensmen when the answers are already in the organization. The assets used to acquire him should've been used for offense or not used at all. Trading this many draft picks is not good

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by dash_pinched

DownGoesBrown with his trade grades for 2017:

Calgary Flames

Best deal: Getting Mike Smith from the Coyotes. I was skeptical at the time, but so far Smith has been exactly what they hoped they were getting.

Worst deal: As mentioned yesterday, giving up a second for Curtis Lazar seemed like a major overpayment on a longshot gamble.

To be determined: Whether Travis Hamonic can settle in; they’d better hope so, given the price they paid to get him.

Total trades: Six.

Overall grade: B. But if Hamonic gets back to his Islanders level, this could move into the A- territority.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/g...-trade-grades/

Hamonic's Islander level last year was bad, he didn't have a good year. Hamonic from 3 years ago would be the Hamonic that's worth what the Flames payed.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Having said that if the pick he moved in the Hamonic trade (no protection at all on the pick) turns into a top 3-10 pick then perhaps that move should cost him his job?

.

So, you are happy having his fate determined by the roll of the dice?



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[EM11]

For me, the organization is going to be results oriented, or it is not. It can't be in between. For most of the past 30 years it's been a lot of shrugging and best efforts, but low responsibility at the top levels of management. Of course every new regime, Treliving including, acts as though results are the only thing that matters. And yet...

[H2SO4(aq)]

A lotta talk about hamonic and rightfully so but personally I really like the physicality he can bring and he holds the opponent accountable. We needed that. But yah we need to make the playoffs or that lottery pick will look ugly

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So, you are happy having his fate determined by the roll of the dice?

He's the one who chose to roll the dice.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He's the one who chose to roll the dice.

I don’t think making a trade is rolling the dice.

You seem to think that if the Islanders draft pick becomes quite high through chance, you would be prepared to fire him, but if it’s just the 11th to 16th pick, he can stay.

He should not be judged more harshly simply through bad luck.


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[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I don’t think making a trade is rolling the dice.

Trading away an uncertain asset is rolling the dice. Trading our first round draft pick (and two more draft picks) for Hamonic isn't far off from McPhee trading Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat. You're rolling the dice that the uncertain asset lacks value.