Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[1qqaaz]

If the Flames miss the playoffs Treliving and Gulutzan should both definitely be fired.
However, I still doubt that'll be the case. The Flames will figure it out in early December like they always do.

[MrMike]

I'm just waiting for a let's stop watching NHL thread at this point.

Fire the coach.

Fire the GM.

Let them move to Seattle.

I'm almost curious to see what pops up if we lose Sunday. I'm not sure where else we can blame. But I'm sure I will be surprised.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Of course he's feeling the heat. He traded the 1st and 2nd rounders to make this team. If they are just a playoff bubble team or first round fodder, he looks like a gm who miscalculates the talent level of his team/coaching.

It's too early to evaluate how this season will go. But it is pretty clear that the whole franchise is in Win Now mode, what with the dealing away of multiple 1st and 2nd round picks. You don't make those kinds of trades unless you feel a team is ready to contend. If it turns out you're just a middling team, though, you've just bought yourself a lot of long-term pain in a failed gamble.

[tsquared1967]

Originally Posted by MrMike

I'm just waiting for a let's stop watching NHL thread at this point.

Fire the coach.

Fire the GM.

Let them move to Seattle.

I'm almost curious to see what pops up if we lose Sunday. I'm not sure where else we can blame. But I'm sure I will be surprised.

Brian Burke? haha

[Iceman90]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

I am not sure that touching the players on the Stockton roster is really the best use of his time.

[SportsJunky]

It can't hurt. Whatever works I say!

[djsFlames]

Treliving's body of work has been 50% great to amazing, 20 percent average and 30 percent befuddling head scratchers imo.

Overall there are GMs that would have done much worse with this team. Hard to complain.

Yet we want to see him get the team on that next level so it's hard to sing praises during times like these, but he's done a lot with what was given, and it hasn't come together yet but most people would've thought at the time that those were the right moves.

My main issues with him currently are the acquiring of Lack instead of promoting within and the PTO signings - Glass instead of Hathaway was a bad move.

Too early to judge the Hamonic move. We're probably picking somewhere between 15-25. And when Hamilton has done arguably less than Hamonic in terms of contributing so far, it's easy to see that the best course is to continue to reserve judgement there.

[Classic_Sniper]

As terrific of a job as Treliving has done, he didn’t address the biggest issue this team had last season. The 3rd and 4th line depth just isn’t at the quality required to be a top end team. Alternate players are being slotted in and they’re still not positively affecting play. They’re playing at a level even worse then last season and it’s costing this team close games.

By now, based on last season’s production, these guys should have provided roughly 3 to 4 goals at the very least. That could equate to maybe a win or 2 or an OT loss. Regardless, a better record than what we have now.

The biggest problem I’m seeing is that the bottom lines aren’t fast enough nor do they play a heavy enough game. They’re not quick enough to get to loose pucks, not strong enough to win the majority of the puck battles, not skilled enough to string together enough plays to create dangerous scoring chances and they’re not heavy enough to cycle the puck effectively in the offensive zone. They’re basically just meh. Very average at everything and good at nothing.

I think the philosophy needs to change, they need to focus on skill and speed rather than whatever they’re looking for because players they’ve identified like Brouwer, Lazar, Hamonic, Stone and etc just don’t look like game changers at all. If there’s one thing Treliving and his team need to focus on, it’s that. Find players who can make a difference at this level from top to bottom. That’s the type of depth we need to become an elite team.

[jayswin]

One of the more underrated moves he's made was that Glencross trade. I still can't believe he got a second and a third for a guy that was clearly done. The fact that it helped us beat Edmonton to the biggest young commodity available in years was a bonus.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Iceman90

I am not sure that touching the young men on the Stockton roster is really the best use of his time.

Dude you might want to rephrase that....

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Dude you might want to rephrase that....

Huh? He was the one making fun of the other guy for poor phrasing.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Huh? He was the one making fun of the other guy for poor phrasing.

Oh lol got it....

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

As terrific of a job as Treliving has done, he didn’t address the biggest issue this team had last season. The 3rd and 4th line depth just isn’t at the quality required to be a top end team. Alternate players are being slotted in and they’re still not positively affecting play. They’re playing at a level even worse then last season and it’s costing this team close games.

By now, based on last season’s production, these guys should have provided roughly 3 to 4 goals at the very least. That could equate to maybe a win or 2 or an OT loss. Regardless, a better record than what we have now.

The biggest problem I’m seeing is that the bottom lines aren’t fast enough nor do they play a heavy enough game. They’re not quick enough to get to loose pucks, not strong enough to win the majority of the puck battles, not skilled enough to string together enough plays to create dangerous scoring chances and they’re not heavy enough to cycle the puck effectively in the offensive zone. They’re basically just meh. Very average at everything and good at nothing.

I think the philosophy needs to change, they need to focus on skill and speed rather than whatever they’re looking for because players they’ve identified like Brouwer, Lazar, Hamonic, Stone and etc just don’t look like game changers at all. If there’s one thing Treliving and his team need to focus on, it’s that. Find players who can make a difference at this level from top to bottom. That’s the type of depth we need to become an elite team.

Bit of a chicken or egg question. Has Treliving failed to address the secondary scoring or are the players in those roles failing to produce? You could look at it either/both ways depending on which player but it's clearly been Treliving's concern for two straight offseasons as evidenced by his "can't sleep at night because of worrying about scoring" comments in both Bob McKenzie interviews.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Bit of a chicken or egg question. Has Treliving failed to address the secondary scoring or are the players in those roles failing to produce? You could look at it either/both ways depending on which player but it's clearly been Treliving's concern for two straight offseasons as evidenced by his "can't sleep at night because of worrying about scoring" comments in both Bob McKenzie interviews.

I showed the numbers in another thread - the Flames have above average depth for secondary scoring. And Treliving improved the team over the summer.

The lack of scoring so far is not Treliving's fault.

Also, to the poster that said secondary scoring was the top issue, I disagree. Goaltending was the top issue, a top 4 defenseman was 2nd, and #1 RW was 3rd.

[djsFlames]

Yeah, if you're telling me 0 goals from the bottom 6 is the best those players can do for this team then you are mistaken. They're snake bitten and also not leaving it all out there. Those guys need to look in the mirror and find that extra 20% they can offer every night. It's in them and they all have track records of producing significantly more than nil.

We've shaken up the positioning on line 3, don't think more moving around is needed. If Bennett and Jankowski bring what they did in Nashville for an extended stretch, they WILL produce and it will only be a matter of time. Problem is their compete tapered off since. Don't know if they were deflated by not being rewarded or nerves played in but they have to bottle what they did in the Nashville game and bring more of exactly that.

[dino7c]

If the 3rd line was producing as expect the team would have a good record...The entire organization expected more from Bennett

Fans that were pumping his tires all summer and now blaming the GM because he sucks

CP majority thought pretty much the entire roster was untouchable a month ago. Now the GM is a bum? At some point certain players have to look themselves in the mirror.

Even Janko...he certainly hasn't looked like a guy determined to stay in the NHL

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Bit of a chicken or egg question. Has Treliving failed to address the secondary scoring or are the players in those roles failing to produce? You could look at it either/both ways depending on which player but it's clearly been Treliving's concern for two straight offseasons as evidenced by his "can't sleep at night because of worrying about scoring" comments in both Bob McKenzie interviews.

I think BT has done a good job overall; I know he preaches patience but I hope that he and the coaching staff are not stubborn when it comes to implementing obvious fixes, or changes. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith even if its not always how the collective would normally proceed. Throw
a guy like Tkachuk on the top line and let him run with it.

Concerning Bennett and the bottom 2 lines; Maybe they didn't handle Bennett the right way. Pushing him to center early seems to have eroded his confidence somewhat. I remember when Bennett scored 4 goals the guys were telling him to stay low key, but now he can't even find the net to take a shot. They should put him on the first, or second line and leave him there for a few weeks so he can get his mojo back. I think leaving him on the 3rd line trying to find his way is not helping the 3rd line have an effective identity. If the third line is not scoring it should at least contributing effectively as an energy, or shut down line.

Bennett* needs players who can understand his language and ability. I think he should be moved to one of the top 2 lines. Not sure why they don't just put Matt Tkachuk on the top line and Bennett on the second and Ferland on the 3rd line. At least Ferland would give the 3rd line an identity. The coaching staff seem reluctant to do anything that is too obvious..., "at least until it's too late".

I agree completely the bottom 2 lines are very poorly constructed and resemble moving patch up parts that are not very high quality. This is probably whats holding the team back. The top 2 lines are excellent.

[btimbit]

This team definitely has some problems but Treliving is not one of them. I might not have the most confidence in his coaching hire at the moment, but managment is the least of my concerns. And as a longtime Flames fan, it's such a relief to be able to say that

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

If the Flames miss the playoffs Treliving and Gulutzan should both definitely be fired.
However, I still doubt that'll be the case. The Flames will figure it out in early December like they always do.

Doubtful they would axe Treliving after just giving him a new 3 year deal, Gully on the other hand not only can't get this group going he's making mind boggling choices on personal where and when they play, a blind monkey wouldn't put the likes of Brouwer or Stajan anywhere near the ice in the last 2 minutes when trying to get a tying goal.

And Cameron sucks as a special teams coach

[Hackey]

So basically if we didn't sign Glass and held on to Byron we would be 12-0 right now?