2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

You forgot Hamonic and Stone in out outbox there homie.

Before the deadline, we had:

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Hamonic
Kylington - Andersson
Stone

now we have

Giordano - _______
Hanifin - Andersson
Valimaki - Mackey(?)
Kylington

Valimaki is probably replacing Hamonic on the roster. Mackey potentially replacing Stone. That still leaves the massive hole Brodie is leaving, which is where Pietrangelo would fit.

And you are right, the cap it staying flat for 2-3 yuears, which compounds how monumentally bad the idea is to move a cost controlled 23 year old top 4 defenseman.

If Valimaki, Kylington or Mackey prove they are top 4 capable, then you look at moving Hanifin as you would be dealing from a position of strength. You are suggesting we fill one hole and then open up another.

Yeah I get what you're driving at, and from our point of view it certainly does look like another hole is being opened up. That's kind of why I said earlier that it depends on the opinion of Flames management on Valimaki. If they believe he's going to slide into a top 4 role right away because of what they're seeing then they have to weight that risk against keeping Hanifin and then skimping out on the 4th line and goaltending because they can't afford to upgrade those areas if they dont move Hanifin.

[Husky]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

On that same note, why pay 7m+ on Hall, when we could probably sign Hoffman for less? Over the past 2 seasons Hoffman has outproduced Hall, even if you pro-rate Halls stats. Hoffman is also more of a goal scorer than Hall, and has spent a great deal of time at RW.

Hall is way more dynamic then hoffman. Hall can drive his line, Hoffman cannot.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah I get what you're driving at, and from our point of view it certainly does look like another hole is being opened up. That's kind of why I said earlier that it depends on the opinion of Flames management on Valimaki. If they believe he's going to slide into a top 4 role right away because of what they're seeing then they have to weight that risk against keeping Hanifin and then skimping out on the 4th line and goaltending because they can't afford to upgrade those areas if they dont move Hanifin.

I don't think it matters regardless because we aren't going to sign both Pietrangelo and Markstrom. But if that miracle occurs, we can deal with the cap implications afterwards and figure it out then.

Also, this was using 9.5m and 5.5m for those players. It's been suggested that Petro would take a lesser cap hit for more money up front; and even then that is also 250k above his rumored asking price in STL. I'm also not sold on Markstrom getting more than the rumored 5m Lehner is getting.

Using my previous scenario, if we trade Ryan and can sign Markstrom for 5 instead of 5.5 and Pietrangelo for a front-loaded 8.5 instead of 9.5, we could go after someone like Dell for 1.5m and add that extra forward

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Husky

Hall is way more dynamic then hoffman. Hall can drive his line, Hoffman cannot.

I love how "driving play" is suddenly more important than actual tangible production.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I love how "driving play" is suddenly more important than actual tangible production.

Why not go back 3 seasons? your stats are kinda cherry picked considering Hoffman just had a career high. Also, Devils/Yotes certainly play a different brand of hockey then the Panthers.

Hoffman is also a -49 over those seasons

Hall is 2 years younger and has 563 points compared to Hoffman's 359...not to mention a recent MVP season. Hall is certainly a better player

And the biggest thing Hall might actually come here

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

That is a worse roster than we had last year. Backlund can't be a 1st line C, Hall can't replace JG offensively and has injury issues, Strome is slow, Ghost is terrible. That is a lottery team.

Gaudreau scores less than 20 goals and 60 points this year and they still made the playoffs. Hall easily replaces that in my opinion.

Monahan can’t be a first line center at least that is what everyone tells me. Strome is slow? Monahan is also slow. Ghost is terrible but so is Hamonic. Dumba is an improvement on Brodie and the 9th pick, Frost, York would all become too 5 prospects for the Flames. Huge improvement in net as well.

Not saying this is a contender but they remain on the bubble and have way more promise for the future.

[dino7c]

I just don't see the point of a bad or average Gaudreau trade...blow the doors off or keep him...Flames aren't desperate for cap space and there are other ways to nake room for a "big fish" UFA. I would bet that Gaudreau's next season will be better than his last.

Gaudreau's $$ per point is still good in a "bad year"

[MrMike]

Hoffman reminds me of Neal, just waiting for production to fall off a cliff and be an awful contract.

[Niemo]

Laine and Ehlers + 2nd + 3rd for Monahan and Gaudreau and Kylington.

Seems like something that may help both teams?

[GS Skier]

Just before tonight's game, because Tampa could win and still should win the series AND Vasilveski is the goalie I'm lobbing this grenade in the trade section. It strays to goalies from time to time.

If Tampa and Vasilveski win a cup tonight or soon, he becomes the 9th straight goalie to win a cup, who was entirely developed ONLY through the winning teams system. 9th straight.

AND 12th time in 13 cup winners.

2011 Tim Thomas is the only outlier and Anti Niemi was a Finnish free agent, he never played in any other NHL system, just Chicago's still developed by Chicago alone.

20072008 Detroit Osgood 3rd rd
20082009 Pittsburgh Fluery 1st rd
20092010 Chicago Niemi FA Finland

20102011 XBostonX XThomasX 9th Rd Quebec

20112012 LA Quick 3rd rd
20122013 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2013-2014 LA Quick 3rd rd
2014-2015 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2015-2016 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
2016-2017 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
20172018 Washington Holtby 4th rd
20182019 St Louis Binnington 3rd rd
2019 020 Tampa?? Vasilevskji?? 1st rd

Crazy huh! Still want to "buy a goalie"? I think we'd better keep working on Rittich, Wolf and that Russian kid Zagadulin.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Why not go back 3 seasons? your stats are kinda cherry picked considering Hoffman just had a career high. Also, Devils/Yotes certainly play a different brand of hockey then the Panthers.

Hoffman is also a -49 over those seasons

Hall is 2 years younger and has 563 points compared to Hoffman's 359...not to mention a recent MVP season. Hall is certainly a better player

And the biggest thing Hall might actually come here

I went 2 years back because that was when Hoffman joined the Panthers. I didn't even think about Halls MVP season to be honest. It's hilarious that you accuse me of cherry picking, but then you give career numbers ignoring that Hall was an NHL regular 4 seasons before Hoffman.

But let's go back further and eliminate "cherry picking". Let's go back to Hoffman's first full season (2014-15) as an NHL regular. Hoffman has 353 points in that time, Hall has 338.

And yes, I am well aware that Hall has a much better point per game ration, but until players start scoring points from IR, games missed to injury need to be seen as a negative and as much as I like Hall, the dude can't stay healthy. Since the start of 2014-15, Hoffman has missed 15 games, Hall has missed almost 100 games, 96 to be exact.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Hoffman reminds me of Neal, just waiting for production to fall off a cliff and be an awful contract.

Except Neal was already declining when we signed him. 3 of his 4 seasons before joining the Flames he had produced fewer than 45 points and was breaking down physically. Hoffman has remained healthy, has never been a banger and 4 of his 6 full seasons in the league have resulted in point totals between 56 and 61 points, the other two were a 48 point rookie season and a 70 point anomaly year. Hoffman reminds me more of Hudler.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Just before tonight's game, because Tampa could win and still should win the series AND Vasilveski is the goalie I'm lobbing this grenade in the trade section. It strays to goalies from time to time.

If Tampa and Vasilveski win a cup tonight or soon, he becomes the 9th straight goalie to win a cup, who was entirely developed ONLY through the winning teams system. 9th straight.

AND 12th time in 13 cup winners.

2011 Tim Thomas is the only outlier and Anti Niemi was a Finnish free agent, he never played in any other NHL system, just Chicago's still developed by Chicago alone.

20072008 Detroit Osgood 3rd rd
20082009 Pittsburgh Fluery 1st rd
20092010 Chicago Niemi FA Finland

20102011 XBostonX XThomasX 9th Rd Quebec

20112012 LA Quick 3rd rd
20122013 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2013-2014 LA Quick 3rd rd
2014-2015 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2015-2016 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
2016-2017 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
20172018 Washington Holtby 4th rd
20182019 St Louis Binnington 3rd rd
2019 020 Tampa?? Vasilevskji?? 1st rd

Crazy huh! Still want to "buy a goalie"? I think we'd better keep working on Rittich, Wolf and that Russian kid Zagadulin.

Technically Binnington has never been property of anyone but St. Louis, but they they did loan him to the Bruins AHL team in 2017-18 where he became a much better goaltender.

I also think developing your own goaltender isn't as beneficial as have a good cost controlled goaltender, which is easier to accomplish on one you have developed yourself.

07-08 Osgood: 800,000
08-09 Fleury: 5,000,000
09-10 Niemi: 826,875
10-11 Thomas: 5,000,000
11-12 Quick: 1,800,00
12-13 Crawford: 2,666,667
13-14 Quick: 5,800,000
14-15 Crawford: 6,000,000
15-16 Murray: 902,500 Fleury: 5,750,000
16-17 Murray: 902,500 Fleury 5,750,000
17-18 Holtby: 6,100,000
18-19 Binnington: 650,000

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I went 2 years back because that was when Hoffman joined the Panthers. I didn't even think about Halls MVP season to be honest. It's hilarious that you accuse me of cherry picking, but then you give career numbers ignoring that Hall was an NHL regular 4 seasons before Hoffman.

But let's go back further and eliminate "cherry picking". Let's go back to Hoffman's first full season (2014-15) as an NHL regular. Hoffman has 353 points in that time, Hall has 338.

And yes, I am well aware that Hall has a much better point per game ration, but until players start scoring points from IR, games missed to injury need to be seen as a negative and as much as I like Hall, the dude can't stay healthy. Since the start of 2014-15, Hoffman has missed 15 games, Hall has missed almost 100 games, 96 to be exact.

I think you will have a hard time convincing many people that Hoffman is better than Hall. I doubt any NHL GM feels that way

Much better points per game/MVP kinda seals it. Also, -49 over three seasons seems really bad even for a guy on a bad team

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The problem with trading Noah Hanifin is that the Flames would immediately be looking for a guy like Noah Hanifin.

What if you could get Shayne Gostisbehere though? He was the seventh highest scoring defenceman on the Flyers this year and his defensive prowess speaks for itself. He only has 3 years left on his contract at 4.5 million dollars.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Just before tonight's game, because Tampa could win and still should win the series AND Vasilveski is the goalie I'm lobbing this grenade in the trade section. It strays to goalies from time to time.

If Tampa and Vasilveski win a cup tonight or soon, he becomes the 9th straight goalie to win a cup, who was entirely developed ONLY through the winning teams system. 9th straight.

AND 12th time in 13 cup winners.

2011 Tim Thomas is the only outlier and Anti Niemi was a Finnish free agent, he never played in any other NHL system, just Chicago's still developed by Chicago alone.

20072008 Detroit Osgood 3rd rd
20082009 Pittsburgh Fluery 1st rd
20092010 Chicago Niemi FA Finland

20102011 XBostonX XThomasX 9th Rd Quebec

20112012 LA Quick 3rd rd
20122013 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2013-2014 LA Quick 3rd rd
2014-2015 Chicago Crawford 2nd rd
2015-2016 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
2016-2017 Pittsburgh Murray 3rd rd
20172018 Washington Holtby 4th rd
20182019 St Louis Binnington 3rd rd
2019 020 Tampa?? Vasilevskji?? 1st rd

Crazy huh! Still want to "buy a goalie"? I think we'd better keep working on Rittich, Wolf and that Russian kid Zagadulin.

That is because teams don't usually let really good goalies go...if someone is stupid enough to do it this season (cough Vancouver) The Flames should go for it.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

Technically Binnington has never been property of anyone but St. Louis, but they they did loan him to the Bruins AHL team in 2017-18 where he became a much better goaltender.

If getting a prospect more starts for development is done by lending him to another team then its still St Louis' development plan for the player. Boston had nothing to do with it.

I still want to know why should spend money on say Markstrom? Keep Talbot around as a mentor until a young goalie emerges. Lighenting does occasionally strike!

[Poe969]

Askarov is the answer to goalie woes, just find a way to get him...

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

If getting a prospect more starts for development is done by lending him to another team then its still St Louis' development plan for the player. Boston had nothing to do with it.

I still want to know why should spend money on say Markstrom? Keep Talbot around as a mentor until a young goalie emerges. Lighenting does occasionally strike!

Because he is already a top goalie, no need to hope and pray

team doesn't have time to wait around for a young goalie to fall from the sky

Not saying the Flames but Markstrom could win the cup with a half decent team in front of him IMO...He just beat Binnington/Allen basically himself playing in front of the one of the worst defensive teams in the NHL

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I think you will have a hard time convincing many people that Hoffman is better than Hall. I doubt any NHL GM feels that way

Much better points per game/MVP kinda seals it. Also, -49 over three seasons seems really bad even for a guy on a bad team

I never said Hoffman was better. I said he outproduced him and we could get him for less money.

Using +/- is just laughable. But what the hell.... Steve Yzerman was -60 in his first 4 NHL seasons. You know it seems really bad even for a guy on a bad team. Right? Mikael Backlund was -21 in a season where he finished 13th in Selke voting.

If you are going to use +/-, at least look into context.