Even better for us - and I do agree - I think we could get him at 6 x 4.5 and Noah at 6 x 4.8 which looks even better for Calgary. I think the best part of the deal is that they are RFA’s so the flames get to tender the deals and Brad’s best attribute so far has no doubt been his contract negotiating.
I don't really understand how Lindholm could be looking at ~$5 million per season when JT Miller, who is significantly better, just got $5.25 million AAV.
To me, that puts Lindholm at around $4.25 million.
Hopefully he doesn't look at Brouwers 4.5 and say he is worth much more than that
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Dellow really didn't do that if you read the article. He's simply saying that given precedence, it is extremely unlikely he ever becomes as good as Hamilton right now. He notes that Hanifin was given a little more freedom last season but was still sheltered after being extremely sheltered the two seasons prior.
That doesn't mean he can't turn into a star (he is not a star, regardless of what the all-star fan vote says), but that seems like a massive risk from the Flames perspective, especially considering what was given up.
The sheltered thing is interesting too - Peters spoke about this on the radio yesterday and said it was less about sheltering Hanifin last season but more about really trusting the Slavin-Pesce pairing to do a lot of the heavy lifting.
The guy is a really good d-man at the age of 21 and is pretty close to same level of d-man at 21 as Hamilton was at 21 - so while it's not guaranteed he follows the same development curve as Hamilton I also wouldn't say it's unprecedented.
Hopefully he doesn't look at Brouwers 4.5 and say he is worth much more than that
I mention JT Miller because his deal (5 years) includes 1 RFA year. Lindholm's next contract will include 2 RFA years, so his contract should be even less comparably.
Can't compare and RFA deal to a UFA deal like Brouwer.
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I mention JT Miller because his deal (5 years) includes 1 RFA year. Lindholm's next contract will include 2 RFA years, so his contract should be even less comparably.
Yeap, however, if they sign Lindholm to a 7 year deal they would also be getting 5 UFA years, so I would imagine that would offset the extra RFA year.
Also, Tampa is a legit contender in a warm climate with tax advantages. Can't know for sure I guess, but I imagine all of that factors in to helping get Miller to sign on the dotted line for a tad less.
For me, if the extend Lindholm to a 7 year $5 million AAV contract, I won't be mad. Just hope it's a laughable bargain because he takes a big step or two forward with his offensive production.
Yeap, however, if they sign Lindholm to a 7 year deal they would also be getting 5 UFA years, so I would imagine that would offset the extra RFA year.
Also, Tampa is a legit contender in a warm climate with tax advantages. Can't know for sure I guess, but I imagine all of that factors in to helping get Miller to sign on the dotted line for a tad less.
I agree, but even with these considerations, if Lindholm gets a 5 year deal, all I'm saying is that it should be much closer to $4 million AAV than $5 million.
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He was just on 960 for about 15 minutes discussing this. He didn't dismiss Hanifin only emphasized that Hamilton was the best player in the trade and the Flames have to hope that Hanifin can be as good while Carolina knows what they have in Hamilton.
I don't subscribe to the Athletic, but it sounds like he isn't taking Lindholm into account. The guy is a difference-maker, and brings elements to his game (speed, tenacity without the puck, ability to gain the blue line) that the Flames desperately need in their top-6. Before the trade, Duhatschek thought the player in the league that the Flames should go after was Lindholm.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
Any word on their jersey number selections will be? Lindholm is listed as 28 on the Flames website. I wonder if Hanifin will go 55 like he did with team USA.
I don't subscribe to the Athletic, but it sounds like he isn't taking Lindholm into account. The guy is a difference-maker, and brings elements to his game (speed, tenacity without the puck, ability to gain the blue line) that the Flames desperately need in their top-6. Before the trade, Duhatschek thought the player in the league that the Flames should go after was Lindholm.
He didn't discount Lindholm as he said he should be asking in the range of a $5 x 5 contract. He actually discussed whether the top line of Gaudreau & Monahan needs him on the top line as he said Gaudreau got 84 points and Monahan 30 goals without a lot of help and if he's a coach he wants Gaudreau to have the puck as much as possible and having Lindholm on the line takes the puck away from him. I tend to disagree with this as I think having a more dangerous guy on the right side means that teams can't overly focus on Gaudreau. That said I suppose if you have Lindholm on the 2nd line with Tkachuk and Backlund it creates a more dangerous 2nd line rather than having all your eggs in one basket.
Any word on their jersey number selections will be? Lindholm is listed as 28 on the Flames website. I wonder if Hanifin will go 55 like he did with team USA.
Lindholm should be a safe bet taking 28. Finally a player worthy of wearing it after Reggie.
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He didn't discount Lindholm as he said he should be asking in the range of a $5 x 5 contract. He actually discussed whether the top line of Gaudreau & Monahan needs him on the top line as he said Gaudreau got 84 points and Monahan 30 goals without a lot of help and if he's a coach he wants Gaudreau to have the puck as much as possible and having Lindholm on the line takes the puck away from him. I tend to disagree with this as I think having a more dangerous guy on the right side means that teams can't overly focus on Gaudreau. That said I suppose if you have Lindholm on the 2nd line with Tkachuk and Backlund it creates a more dangerous 2nd line rather than having all your eggs in one basket.
I think that is what makes me like Lindholm is that he opens up options on basically 3 lines. We aren't stuck with one player on a line 1 and hoping they work out
Confusing trade for me, emotionally. I quite coveted Lindholm in that 2013 draft and was hoping we’d nab him then, so it’s wondrous that we have both him and Monahan in the fold now. Hanafin also looks to be solid, but I still find the loss of Hamilton to be a tad jarring, and am going to miss watching those deadly wristers from the point/high circle.
I went from caustiosuly optimistic to a fan of the trade over the course of the day Saturday. What would have made it a clear win for the Flames imo would be a 2nd rounder for next year. Even a conditional 2nd based on if Fox signed or not with the Canes
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He was just on 960 for about 15 minutes discussing this. He didn't dismiss Hanifin only emphasized that Hamilton was the best player in the trade and the Flames have to hope that Hanifin can be as good while Carolina knows what they have in Hamilton. They also discussed Treliving's obsession with character (and Montreal) and how character is overrated when it comes to winning cups as Kessel is kind of an oddball guy (like Hamilton) but he was worth it to the Penguins for their two Stanley Cups and Subban may not be the greatest locker room guy but you can't dismiss that the Predators two most successful seasons have come with him on the team and that winning is more important than guys hanging out together.
I read the article but missed the interview. Based on your comments I struggle with what I infer to be Tyler Dellow's interpretation of character (and in the article I don't recall him ever using the word).
Character is about values, believes, inner strength, and many other things that are hard to quantify. Some of the biggest "characters" I have worked with have also had the most character. Being odd ball, goofy, crazy, or marching to your own beat should not impune your character. A strange duck can have tremendous character. I actually find his article a bit disparaging to people like Kessel and Subban if it implies they do not have character. Everything I have ever heard about Subban argues his character is outstanding.
Wish I had caught the interview as well. I fundamentally disagree that many of the players he mentioned in the article lack character.
I read the article but missed the interview. Based on your comments I struggle with what I infer to be Tyler Dellow's interpretation of character (and in the article I don't recall him ever using the word).
Character is about values, believes, inner strength, and many other things that are hard to quantify. Some of the biggest "characters" I have worked with have also had the most character. Being odd ball, goofy, crazy, or marching to your own beat should not impune your character. A strange duck can have tremendous character. I actually find his article a bit disparaging to people like Kessel and Subban if it implies they do not have character. Everything I have ever heard about Subban argues his character is outstanding.
Wish I had caught the interview as well. I fundamentally disagree that many of the players he mentioned in the article lack character.
Dellow never mentioned in the article that these players lacked character, just that they were not typical hockey jocks. That is, the may come across as more aloof or rub people the wrong way. I haven't heard of anyone having a bad interaction with Hamilton.
Ferland and Monahan were our only true shooters on the team. Watching highlights, it looks to me like Lindholm isn't a shooter either. I think it was one of the causes of our low shooting percentages last year, that we had so few players who shot first asked questions later.
It would be nice to add at least one more trigger man, wherever they slot in on the lineup.
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I read the article but missed the interview. Based on your comments I struggle with what I infer to be Tyler Dellow's interpretation of character (and in the article I don't recall him ever using the word).
Character is about values, believes, inner strength, and many other things that are hard to quantify. Some of the biggest "characters" I have worked with have also had the most character. Being odd ball, goofy, crazy, or marching to your own beat should not impune your character. A strange duck can have tremendous character. I actually find his article a bit disparaging to people like Kessel and Subban if it implies they do not have character. Everything I have ever heard about Subban argues his character is outstanding.
Wish I had caught the interview as well. I fundamentally disagree that many of the players he mentioned in the article lack character.
The character talk was on 960 with Pinder not the article. Pinder brought up how Treliving has made a lot of moves to bring in character guys (Brouwer, Hamonik, etc) and it hasn't paid off and Dellow made the comments in regards to teams being successful with players like Kessel, Subban, etc and that you win with talent not character. To be fair he also said from the outside it's not fair to comment on locker room issues they may not be privy of.
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...Carolina knows what they have in Hamilton. They also discussed Treliving's obsession with character (and Montreal) and how character is overrated when it comes to winning cups as Kessel is kind of an oddball guy (like Hamilton) but he was worth it to the Penguins for their two Stanley Cups and Subban may not be the greatest locker room guy but you can't dismiss that the Predators two most successful seasons have come with him on the team and that winning is more important than guys hanging out together.
I wanted to listen to the Dellow clip, but SN960 has it mislabelled on their website.
Without actually hearing it myself it is difficult to comment, but this bolded part is nonsense. There is no real evidence that Treliving prioritizes "character" any more than most other NHL GMs, and the idea that Hamilton was traded because he likes to visit museums was debunked the day after the trade. With all the talk after the trade, it seems most likely that Hamilton was moved as a response to the issues Treliving identified in his season ending PC with the team's compete-level and urgency. It also seems probable that Hamilton was not interested in staying with the Flames. Dellow's attempt to connect these items to an "obsession with character" on the Flames's part is little better than tabloid journalism.
This was a hockey trade made to improve the hockey team.
*EDIT* I just saw your response here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
The character talk was on 960 with Pinder not the article. Pinder brought up how Treliving has made a lot of moves to bring in character guys (Brouwer, Hamonik, etc) and it hasn't paid off and Dellow made the comments in regards to teams being successful with players like Kessel, Subban, etc and that you win with talent not character. To be fair he also said from the outside it's not fair to comment on locker room issues they may not be privy of.
I don't at all disagree with Dellow, but I do think it is ridiculous to suggest that Treliving is foregoing skill in some misguided pursuit of character. No one will argue how poorly the Brouwer acquisition has turned out, but Hamonic was not acquired because of his great character; he was brought in because he is a solid top-four defenseman on a value contract. Both the players for whom Hamilton and Ferland were traded are highly skilled, young players, and THAT was why they cost so much to obtain.
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"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
I agree, but even with these considerations, if Lindholm gets a 5 year deal, all I'm saying is that it should be much closer to $4 million AAV than $5 million.
