Calgary Openings, Closings, and Developments

[Slava]

Originally Posted by blankall

There's rarely a sense of community anywhere. A former advantage of the suburbs was the community, which requires large groups of young families. That doesn't happen anymore.

The townhouses do tend to attract younger families. The strata laws also act to police the community, which keeps louder and crazier people out. The strata fees also ensure it's only people who can hold down a job in the strata communities.

My current neighbour is over 70, has vicious fights with his spouse, and has a giant scrap metal pile in his backyard. That wouldn't happen in a strata lot.

This is just not true. I know my neighbours and talk with them all the time. I know people in my neighbourhood and there's a sense of community there. I have good friends who live in other communities and they definitely have great relationships with neighbours and people in their communities as well.

You're just pushing the idea that everyone is better off in a townhouse and should prefer that. I lived in one and while it was fine, I greatly prefer the SFH. That might change as I age and don't want to mow lawns or shovel snow, but we'll see what happens.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Slava

This is just not true. I know my neighbours and talk with them all the time. I know people in my neighbourhood and there's a sense of community there. I have good friends who live in other communities and they definitely have great relationships with neighbours and people in their communities as well.

You're just pushing the idea that everyone is better off in a townhouse and should prefer that. I lived in one and while it was fine, I greatly prefer the SFH. That might change as I age and don't want to mow lawns or shovel snow, but we'll see what happens.

I've stated several times that not everyone wants to live in a townhouse (and probably most don't). The fact the option doesn't exist is what I take issue with. If Calgary has a population of 1.5 million, and only 10% would prefer townhouses, that's still 150k people, who aren't being given proper options.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by blankall

I've stated several times that not everyone wants to live in a townhouse (and probably most don't). The fact the option doesn't exist is what I take issue with. If Calgary has a population of 1.5 million, and only 10% would prefer townhouses, that's still 150k people, who aren't being given proper options.

Do you have any data on that? I see that SFHs have dropped significantly over the last 6-7 years in Calgary and are currently ~40% of the dwellings. The decline has been by about 28% in the last five years.

According to Stats Canada, Calgary is about 9.8% for row houses, so that seems to be pretty much where it should be? https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...24&objectId=4e

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Slava

This is just not true. I know my neighbours and talk with them all the time. I know people in my neighbourhood and there's a sense of community there. I have good friends who live in other communities and they definitely have great relationships with neighbours and people in their communities as well.

You're just pushing the idea that everyone is better off in a townhouse and should prefer that. I lived in one and while it was fine, I greatly prefer the SFH. That might change as I age and don't want to mow lawns or shovel snow, but we'll see what happens.

I think most people would prefer a SFH to a townhouse. I certainly do. I'm blessed enough that I can afford that, but that's not true for everyone.

There are economic considerations here, and if it came down to it I'd prefer to live in a townhouse in Calgary than a single family home in Beiseker. I think the market should be allowed to make that choice available to people.

Nothing is going to force anyone to build townhouses - SFH are still 100% allowed.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Slava

Do you have any data on that? I see that SFHs have dropped significantly over the last 6-7 years in Calgary and are currently ~40% of the dwellings. The decline has been by about 28% in the last five years.

According to Stats Canada, Calgary is about 9.8% for row houses, so that seems to be pretty much where it should be? https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...24&objectId=4e

Were getting into a pretty moot point here. All I'm stating is create the option for medium density housing. As others have stated, if the market doesn't support it, it won't happen. Thus far, the market has been supporting the limited amount medium density we do have and with extremely high demand.

[PepsiFree]

Why are people so scared of up-zoning if they don’t think anyone is going to want the property types available in up-zoned neighbourhoods?

[you&me]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

If there's no market demand for townhouses then they won't get built even if all the land gets upzoned to allow for them. R-CG still allows for single family homes to be built - if that's the most economic use for lots that are up for redevelopment that's what'll get built.

I'm a long way to the right of Pepsifree on the political spectrum as normally defined, but I think this is a good policy. It's removing restrictions that are preventing the free market from providing housing for people.

If it turns out the market doesn't want that housing then nothing changes, and no-harm, no-foul. But that isn't what's likely to happen, imo.

I agree, with the difference being that I don't think this is a magic bullet solution others think or hope it will be. If it is, I don't see how it will affect me in any way, so I don't really care.

Admittedly, I'm looking at this through a limited lens... I know a few builders and developers and of those that have tried townhouse projects of the type you'd need to justify redeveloping a random lot in Elbow Park, I don't think they'll all of a sudden be in a rush to try again... The market for that product is very limited, so all of the hand-wringing is likely for naught.

At the end of the day, demand for townhomes is driven by economic compromise and if this change changes those economics and more townhomes get built, it will be a success.

[Muta]

Personally, I would love to live in a townhouse if I could afford one, especially since housing prices are out of control. It's slightly bigger than a condo (which I'm currently in), and I'd be okay without a backyard as well, since a) its less maintenance and b) that's what public parks are for. Condo living is minimalist though, so I'm fine with that too if I have to.

As a society, I do think we're going to eventually (re: soon) have to have to a larger discussion on large, SFH development going forward. The ecological footprint of this building typology is creating massive demands on resource infrastructure across the world. We're going to have to adjust our personal priorities and lifestyles as the world population grows, sea levels rise due to climate change and available, developable land becomes less and less.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by you&me

I agree, with the difference being that I don't think this is a magic bullet solution others think or hope it will be. If it is, I don't see how it will affect me in any way, so I don't really care.

Admittedly, I'm looking at this through a limited lens... I know a few builders and developers and of those that have tried townhouse projects of the type you'd need to justify redeveloping a random lot in Elbow Park, I don't think they'll all of a sudden be in a rush to try again... The market for that product is very limited, so all of the hand-wringing is likely for naught.

At the end of the day, demand for townhomes is driven by economic compromise and if this change changes those economics and more townhomes get built, it will be a success.

I think a 12 unit project in Glamorgan on a few lots is way more likely than Elbow Park for a bunch of reasons.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Wait, almost your entire posting history is one liners and other attempts at humour? Except this past week where you've suddenly been serious and into it with posters in three separate topics in an agitated manner. It's weird.

I am. I just make 500 of them so the 1-2 are easy to miss.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by blankall

Also, a lot of people buying into the detached lot dream, are only doing so because they've been told that's the ideal and they don't have many other options.

I doubt that’s true. The great majority of Canadians raising young families today grew up in the suburbs themselves, so it’s not as though they have no idea what they’re getting into.

And there are options besides living in a big house in the far burbs. If someone feels long commutes are onerous, they can get a detached home in Southwood instead of Silverado. Of course it will be smaller and older. But you can’t have everything.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I doubt that’s true. The great majority of Canadians raising young families today grew up in the suburbs themselves, so it’s not as though they have no idea what they’re getting into.

Things are different from the perspective of home owner vs. punk kid of own owner. The suburb experience has also changed. It used to be about block parties and riding around on your bike with other gangs of kids until dusk. Now...not so much.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And there are options besides living in the far burbs. If someone feels long commutes are onerous, they can get a detached home in Southwood instead of Silverado. Of course it will be smaller and older. But you can’t have everything.

I'd prefer a newer townhome than a older fixer upper. Once again, we just need to make more options available.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by blankall

Things are different from the perspective of home owner vs. punk kid of own owner. The suburb experience has also changed. It used to be about block parties and riding around on your bike with other gangs of kids until dusk. Now...not so much.



I'd prefer a newer townhome than an older fixer upper. Once again, we just need to make more options available.

In your anecdotal experience?

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by Muta

As a society, I do think we're going to eventually (re: soon) have to have to a larger discussion on large, SFH development going forward. The ecological footprint of this building typology is creating massive demands on resource infrastructure across the world. We're going to have to adjust our personal priorities and lifestyles as the world population grows, sea levels rise due to climate change and available, developable land becomes less and less.

I thought the plan was to open up Lake Bonavista to houseboats. Pack that sucker up.

[Locke]

Lets get a floating village going like they have in SE Asia.

Population Density!!!

[Johnny Makarov]

The best thing is that it already smells like a toilet so more human excrement will not change things.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

The best thing is that it already smells like a toilet so more human excrement will not change things.

I thought the ##### from Lake Bonavista residents didn't stink.

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by Locke

Lets get a floating village going like they have in SE Asia.

Population Density!!!

I’m sure the NIMBL’s will shut this down. All for high density housing initiatives as long as it’s not in their lake.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Brendone

I’m sure the NIMBL’s will shut this down. All for high density housing initiatives as long as it’s not in their lake.

What if it was submerged?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Locke

What if it was submerged?

Sliver could probably get onboard with the concept of underwater bunkers if they also loosened the regulations for underground bunkers.