Alberta Politics Thread v2

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by belsarius

So 46% of the vote should have been plenty. I just need an explanation of how previous PC governments caused Prentice's support to drop from 46% to 27.8% in 3 months? If Albertans support a tough budget then wouldn't he have gained support? He seemed to think so with the early election call.

I already addressed that, years of poor fiscal management and corruption and the floor crossings turned people off, if Prentice had been running without all the baggage he would have won easily.You are picking one moment in time with the polls to base your argument on.

In 2015 parties that were preaching fiscal sanity took over 50% of the vote and it is pretty obvious that some PC support that is normally fiscally conservative bled to the NDP over social issues with the WRP.

To expand on this, in most those elections the 2nd place party was preaching fiscal sanity. Going off memory here, not going to bother spending hours researching.

In 1993 the Liberal almost won government by going right of the PC's, Klein stole their platform basically.
In 1997 and 2001 it didn't really matter who the opposition was, a majority supported the PC's and austerity budgets.
In 2004 and 2008 I seem to remember Taft was fairly fiscally conservative, I remember him campaigning on building the Heritage Fund.
In 2012 the PC's and WR took almost 80% of the vote, no doubt a good 15%+ of the PC vote was from strategic voting though. Thanks for Redford guys.
In 2015 it took a near perfect vote split, a PC protest vote and a near perfect strategic vote to get the NDP in.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Vedder

Your larger point is right, but Jim Prentice actually campaigned on addressing some of the structural revenue problems in Alberta and got destroyed for it.

The lack of a truly fiscally conservetive party in Alberta is mainly because it’s not politically viable.

For decades, Albertans clung to a fantasy that because we're special people, we can have the education and health care system of a place with high taxes, while enjoying a low tax regime. This fantasy, of course, was enabled by massive windfalls of energy royalties.

Since this fantasy lasted for decades, it will likely take decades for Albertans to acknowledge the harsh reality that we're just another place and we have to pay for the stuff we want the way other people do.

[Jacks]

That may be true but the majority of Albertans have voted for the most fiscally responsible party(s) available in almost every election since I can remember. So who do you blame? the voters or the government?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jacks

That may be true but the majority of Albertans have voted for the most fiscally responsible party(s) available in almost every election since I can remember. So who do you blame? the voters or the government?

Stop saying that, it isn't true.

They have voted for team blue because #### Trudeau's liberals.

Understand that using found money for 20% of your operating budget is borderline lunacy and nothing at all resembling responsibility. It is completely irresponsible.

It is irresponsible to sell profitable crown corps for short term budget injections to justify lowering taxes.

It is irresponsible to raid the heritage fund to pay for services and infrastructure that should be paid for them GH reasonable oevels of taxation.

It is irresponsible to offload significant financial obligations onto cities because they have disproportionately lower voting power to resist that burden.

All of these are just awful decisions and aren't informed by any kind of reasonable economic theory.

If they were justifiable then without the benefit if hindsight that's one thing, but to blindly continue to follow these types of policies years, decades, after they've been shown to sour the fruit, it is zealotry.

[Jacks]

And every other choice they had was promising to spend more money we don't have so what's your point?
NDP have raised every tax they could and are still running a massive deficit while spending every single resource dollar they can get.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jacks

And every other choice they had was promising to spend more money we don't have so what's your point?
NDP have raised every tax they could and are still running a massive deficit while spending every single resource dollar they can get.

Partisan pablum.

[InglewoodFan]

Nice to see one of my local UCP hopefuls is supporting the alt-right memers. This guy is Farkas' campaign manager and the two are always together at town halls etc. Hard to buy the whole "I didn't know" defense when (a) it is a private account that is hidden from public view and (b) he sought them out.

https://www.thestar.com/calgary/2018...tic-memes.html

[PsYcNeT]

I like that all the guys that used to drive-by hanging out the back of a beat-up '93 Corolla and scream "F@**OT" at random people are basically 35+ year old edgelords now posting memes at each other on Facebook and act surprised when people think they are human garbage.

[Ozy_Flame]

From the article in quote:

"Lots of older baby boomers that think the younger generation is a lost cause".

How rich is that. Save us, retirees! We don't know what we're doing! Give us alt-right conservatism to save our souls!

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

For decades, Albertans clung to a fantasy that because we're special people, we can have the education and health care system of a place with high taxes, while enjoying a low tax regime. This fantasy, of course, was enabled by massive windfalls of energy royalties.

Since this fantasy lasted for decades, it will likely take decades for Albertans to acknowledge the harsh reality that we're just another place and we have to pay for the stuff we want the way other people do.

Albertans already pay more taxes than the rest of the country. It’s why our province loses $10 billion every year to other provinces in transfer payments.

You want us to pay even more taxes?

[Erick Estrada]

Climate change is very low on my list of priorities of what I look at in a provincial government. Everybody recycles now. Everyone is mindful not to waste. Plants are being held to ever increasing stringent regulations. This province has many, many, larger issues and fish to fry and a few party members opinion of climate change is totally irrelevant in the big picture. People basing their votes on nonsense like this are what ruins it for everyone that has mouths to feed. You are free to vote as you please but if your criteria for electing a party is based on a party member's Facebook post you are as much an idiot as he is.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Albertans already pay more taxes than the rest of the country. It’s why our province loses $10 billion every year to other provinces in transfer payments.

You want us to pay even more taxes?

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

The face of someone who doesn’t understand transfer payments or income tax hahahahahaha.

This made me laugh. Thanks.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Climate change is very low on my list of priorities of what I look at in a provincial government. Everybody recycles now. Everyone is mindful not to waste. Plants are being held to ever increasing stringent regulations.

Okay, but the world is still totally and completely screwed. You get that, right? Like, utterly doomed?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Climate change is very low on my list of priorities of what I look at in a provincial government. Everybody recycles now. Everyone is mindful not to waste. Plants are being held to ever increasing stringent regulations. This province has many, many, larger issues and fish to fry and a few party members opinion of climate change is totally irrelevant in the big picture. People basing their votes on nonsense like this are what ruins it for everyone that has mouths to feed. You are free to vote as you please but if your criteria for electing a party is based on a party member's Facebook post you are as much an idiot as he is.

I assume you are referring to climate change denial, which is as much an issue for me in a leader as is fixing an economy and creating jobs.

Just because I put things in a blue box and separate my garbage does not mean that the environmental concerns are mitigated or solved. That's just paying lip service to being a responsible neighbor. There are far more environmental issues at stake.

The thing that pissed me off most about Harper's conservatives was the defunding of scientific programs and the muzzling of scientists. That might not seem like a big deal to some, but on principle I can't support anyone who refuses to use STEM as the core principle in their decision making and vision for this country. It's a non-starter, simply because those mindsets drive where funding (or lack of funding) actually goes from a public purse perspective.

It's all about where your priorities lay.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

It's not really that baffling to me. I suspect much of it was motivated by the reality that the bleak scientific consensus about climate change would be simplified and seized on by opportunistic zealous environmentalist ideologues to crusade against energy projects (as if they needed more ammunition). Some of the people doing the research are themselves among that cadre. I don't think that's a justifiable reason for trying to hush up research but I immediately assumed that was why they were doing it.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I assume you are referring to climate change denial, which is as much an issue for me in a leader as is fixing an economy and creating jobs.

Just because I put things in a blue box and separate my garbage does not mean that the environmental concerns are mitigated or solved. That's just paying lip service to being a responsible neighbor. There are far more environmental issues at stake.

The thing that pissed me off most about Harper's conservatives was the defunding of scientific programs and the muzzling of scientists. That might not seem like a big deal to some, but on principle I can't support anyone who refuses to use STEM as the core principle in their decision making and vision for this country. It's a non-starter, simply because those mindsets drive where funding (or lack of funding) actually goes from a public purse perspective.

It's all about where your priorities lay.

Things haven't really changed. The Liberal government is doing the same thing. Scientists are still muzzled.

Politicians just pander and say things that will get them the most votes. I said it during the last election, in recent years for those not ingrained in party doctrine, it is not about parties as much as it is voting for who will leave the lessor of a mess.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

It's all about where your priorities lay.

And how long you can live in your parent's basement before getting into the real world and dealing with real life issues. The average Canadian has 70 or so years on this planet. Don't waste it on stuff out of your control.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

The face of someone who doesn’t understand transfer payments or income tax hahahahahaha.

This made me laugh. Thanks.

So with your incredibly high understanding can you please link something that shows the average Albertan pays more in taxes than someone in say, Quebec or Ontario?

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

So with your incredibly high understanding can you please link something that shows the average Albertan pays more in taxes than someone in say, Quebec or Ontario?

That won't even take into account the fact they both pay PST. Their provincial personal tax rates are definitely higher, and I would think the federal rate is the same. We are the lowest taxed province in the nation, not sure how an Albertan wouldn't know that.