Alberta Election Thread - Election Day April 16 2019

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Now this is the kind of party support that totally wins the hearts and minds of the people!

NSFW!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1117054069124689920

He has an election sign

[Tacopuck]

Locke is right, even if your are personally doing well without the O&G sector, that doesn't change the fact that the O&G sector finances a very significant portion of our Social programs. Programs that need alot of money to run on, money that cant just be run on debt.

Anyone in AB that hinders or supports groups that hinder our O&G sector are doing a massive disservice to ALL Albertans (an Canadians).

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What did you think of this comment;

Kind of taking a shot at Albertans no? She's right in some ways that we do blame Ottawa for a lot of our issues (plenty warranted) as well as our self-inflicted issues (we did vote in an NDP government after all) but I get the vibe of sour grapes that her party of choice (NDP) may be out.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's my assumption based off the sour grapes vibe of her article. It doesn't sound like something I would expect from someone that was a staunch Alberta Party supporter as they would have known their party never had a chance.

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's possible although but to me it sounds like the bitterness of a person who's party lost as she's calling out Albertans for supporting a party she clearly does not. If you are this angry about the prospect of a UCP government it makes some sense you may vote for the party that has the best odds of ensuring that doesn't happen.

Gerson is about as centrist as it gets. Not sure who she'd vote for - I'd guess AP, but following Alberta politics as closely as she does, I imagine she just hates everybody (for good reason). She is frequently just as scathing against lefties and makes compelling arguments supporting Alberta against misconceptions from the rest of the country.

Personally, I find her very balanced and can really relate to her. When I am around conservative people, I hate them. When I am around progressive people, I hate them.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Maybe for most people with bills to pay and mouths to feed social progressivism isn't the number one issue

Its really not that complicated

I actually shook my head when I read this post.

[dre]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Great, and you need to realize that some
There are plenty of people who are doing very well and are happy in this province with our without the oil and gas industry. It is important to remember this.

That was me until I had to make a tough decision to close my company in 2015.
My company had nothing to do with oil and gas.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by dre

That was me until I had to make a tough decision to close my company in 2015.
My company had nothing to do with oil and gas.

Sorry to hear that. But that still doesn't change the fact that people are working, happy and thriving in Alberta. I started my company early 2016 and business has been great, but we might be in different industries.

I am curious though - oil started to fall in late 2014, and then the effects weren't fully realized until at least Spring of 2015. When did you close your shop? What kind of customers did you have? Where was your main stream of revenue coming from? Did you find way to make your business more efficient before shutting the doors? Was there a business plan in place for short-term survival and long-term growth?

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Great, and you need to realize that some Albertans don't see Oil as a priority, much as it may be frustrating to people who think it is a priority.

There are plenty of people who are doing very well and are happy in this province with our without the oil and gas industry. It is important to remember this.

Of course I understand that. There's a whole spectrum of people. I don't have the same priorities of someone working for the government that doesn't have to worry about the economy. Never thought otherwise. Hell, they may lose their jobs if the UCP get in. So voting NDP is the smart move for them economically.

But when +50% of people do view oil and gas as important in Alberta, that becomes the dominant election platform. This is why ~65% of private sector people are voting UCP, while only 30% of public are voting UCP. Everyone is voting for their economic self interest.

Pretty much, nothing else matters.

[transplant99]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1117909259331575808

[dre]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Sorry to hear that. But that still doesn't change the fact that people are working, happy and thriving in Alberta. I started my company early 2016 and business has been great, but we might be in different industries.

I am curious though - oil started to fall in late 2014, and then the effects weren't fully realized until at least Spring of 2015. When did you close your shop? What kind of customers did you have? Where was your main stream of revenue coming from? Did you find way to make your business more efficient before shutting the doors? Was there a business plan in place for short-term survival and long-term growth?

Nice! What business if you don't mind me asking?

Transportation. I had my own authority and had 3 good clients. Mostly ran British Columbia. Our industry started feeling it late 2013 early 2014. If we wanted the business to survive that would mean being on the road for months at a time (going to US). Not a chance with 2 small kids and a baby at home. What I am trying to say is I didn't realize how important the oil industry was for my company and my family until the crash. I failed. But learned a lot and was lucky to walk away with money in my pocket. I think now is a really good time for startups. I am working on a new startup right now actually. Launching end of April hopefully. Need government approval on a few things first.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Everyone knows that there's money in both opposing and supporting projects. But what can be done? As long as it's reported accurately on taxes, there's nothing illegal. Nor can you try to tell a First Nation not to receive support from this or that organization while objecting to the project when the First Nation next door is getting jobs and donations for supporting the project.

That's where the disconnect is for me. Krause has been embarking on this 10 year campaign to tell us what we already know. But there's nothing that can be done to stop it as long as it's legal funding.

[Dion]

Gunter: As a premier, Notley more like Getty than Lougheed

Frankly, if Notley is the heir to anyone’s legacy, it’s Don Getty’s: The huge deficits, the runaway spending on economic diversification projects and the attempts (largely failed) to pick corporate winners and losers are all Getty-like.

Notley’s promise to spend at least $3.5 billion tax dollars on her Made-in-Alberta program to build value-added refineries and upgraders (and attract around $75 billion in private sector investment) puts me in mind of Getty’s taxpayer-funded forays into energy projects, pulp and paper and agriculture.

There was the MagCan magnesium smelter in High River that lasted only a year and cost Albertans nearly $200 million. There was NovAtel, the provincial government’s attempt to get into cellphone manufacturing that cost taxpayers over $600 million. And Millar Western and AlPac and Gainers and the Swan Hills hazardous waste treatment plant, which together cost about $2 billion.

Even if all of the NDP’s expensive dreams come true, the private-sector investment they unleash will not make up for the $100 billion in lost investment their policies (and those of their chums in Ottawa) have cost in the past two years.

But I think there is far more likelihood the Made-in-Alberta schemes will end up like Getty-era boondoggles.

There’s no reason to believe the NDP have become suddenly smart, economically. To date, their economic performance has been a disaster. Just look at the job numbers.

Yes, public-sector employment has surged ahead under the NDP. The number of Albertans being paid by tax dollars (in government or in health care, education and public services) has increased by more than 47,000 since the NDP took over, according to Calgary economist Mark Milke.

However, the number of Albertans employed in the private sector has actually fallen by over 8,000. Over four years, natural growth in the economy, plus population growth, should have created about 100,000 new private-sector jobs.

In a slow year, the provincial economy should create 22,000 to 30,000 new jobs. In one boom year alone (2013), Alberta created 82,300.

But under four full years of the NDP, the private-sector workforce has shrunk by 8,000.

You say new public-sector workers pay taxes, too, and spend money that helps the economy. And that’s true. But the money to pay their salaries has to come from the private sector in the first place. The NDP model of growing the economy by spending tens of billions on public services and public-sector hires is unsustainable.

https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/colu...-than-lougheed

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Muta

Macleans: What Alberta voters should know about Jason Kenney and the UCP

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/wha...y-and-the-ucp/

For someone who is attacking another person for misleading discourse on a topic, there are some interesting parts of this article worth highlighting.

For example, on the equalization referendum:

Even if a referendum did force the federal government to the table, there is nothing stopping a Prime Minister from simply saying: “Nah, we’re not changing anything. But thanks for making the trip.”

Changes to the funding formula itself are already reviewed regularly in Parliament—a referendum doesn’t necessarily give Alberta any more leverage to lobby for a change than it currently has.

Literally a clear vote in a referendum would stop a Prime Minister from behaving in this manner. The SCC has unanimously declared there is a legal obligation on the feds and all other provinces to come to negotiate in good faith. Alberta would be in the position to go to the courts to say the feds failed in its legal obligations and the courts would be obligated to order the feds back to the table.

And why throw in the word 'necessarily' in the last sentence? Could it be because the author knows a referendum could give Alberta more leverage than it currently has and nobody will ever know unless it is tried?

I am quick to remind that I actually do not think this is a very good idea because I am rather wary of what opening up the constitution on one issue for one province could lead to. I just do not see why now journalists seem to think they are qualified to definitively predict constitutional law outcomes. Peter Hogg has for decades been a leading constitutional law expert who said Marc Nadon was legally permitted to sit on the SCC. Last I checked, Peter Hogg was completely wrong.

Then on the carbon tax...talk about theatre:

A provincial government is entirely within its rights to rescind the carbon tax. Just as a federal government is entirely within its rights to invoke its backstop, which would simply ensure that Ottawa, rather than Edmonton, collects that tax and controls all the revenues that it generates.

The UCP has promised to join Saskatchewan, Ontario and New Brunswick in a court challenge of the federal government’s right to impose that backstop. The outcome of the challenge is a big unknown. Maybe it will succeed. Maybe not. Either way, Alberta will rack up a few billable hours and get a front-row seat to a great bit of theatre.

She cannot even maintain her own definitive constitutional opinion for one paragraph in her own article. If the challenge to the federal government's 'right' to impose the backstop is successful, then by definition the federal government is not 'entirely within its rights to invoke its backstop'.

Again, I am not trying to say it is a smart move or not. But I think that a lot of Albertans in this election have decided they are willing to give these things a shot because they have watched 4 years of another strategy that has not worked and so they will take some risks on a completely different approach.

Why does that have to mean they have been tricked into buying snake oil?

[Corral]

Originally Posted by transplant99

https://twitter.com/user/status/1117909259331575808

OMG! There might be money flowing to support a campaign against oil and gas development in the oil sands. Who would have thought? And its almost $4 million per year since 2009. $4 million! Double OMG! That's like about what an average NHL player makes in one season.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Corral

OMG! There might be money flowing to support a campaign against oil and gas development in the oil sands. Who would have thought? And its almost $4 million per year since 2009. $4 million! Double OMG! That's like about what an average NHL player makes in one season.

WTF is the point of your post? That it's no big deal that an American company has spent ~$40M sabotaging Canadian industry?

[nik-]

Like I said before, it's sad that it cost so little to hamstring a foreign economy.

If all it took was $4 million to get naive zealots to help sink their own country, why would you bother spending more?

[Corral]

$4 million per year seems like peanuts in the scale of how much money is directed at the oil and gas industry in Alberta. And i don't know why people seem to directly correlate lobbying funds to the rejection of pipelines. In both cases, our courts found unlawful activity by the Feds. And in both cases, the feds were the Harper Conservatives. The bungling starts there.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by nik-

Like I said before, it's sad that it cost so little to hamstring a foreign economy.

If all it took was $4 million to get naive zealots to help sink their own country, why would you bother spending more?

While it's frustrating that we've let foreign interests influence our politics that way, let's not kid ourselves that those campaigns are a decisive or even a major factor in public opinion. We may not like it, and it may not be fair, but a growing number of people around the world despise the oil and gas industry. It's about as popular as tobacco companies. Albertans don't recognize it, the way I'm sure Virgianians who worked for Philip Morris in 1990 didn't recognize the way their industry was regarded.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by nik-

Like I said before, it's sad that it cost so little to hamstring a foreign economy.

If all it took was $4 million to get naive zealots to help sink their own country, why would you bother spending more?

Amazing how little it costs to manipulate some groups of people. Raise a few million, enlist a few actors and bam, watch all the suckers line up to sabotage their own industry in the name of the environment. meanwhile, the American oil and gas companies who back the campaign, are laughing all the way to the bank as they continue to pump CO2 with little regard, less accountability and lower regulations toward environmental concerns.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Great, and you need to realize that some Albertans don't see Oil as a priority, much as it may be frustrating to people who think it is a priority.

There are plenty of people who are doing very well and are happy in this province with our without the oil and gas industry. It is important to remember this.

Yeah that's me but it doesn't mean I am going to put myself ahead of the rest of the province and families that are in the middle of hard times. Everyone has their own priorities and mine isn't about what's best for me. It's what's best for this province and my fellow Albertans.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

While it's frustrating that we've let foreign interests influence our politics that way, let's not kid ourselves that those campaigns are a decisive or even a major factor in public opinion. We may not like it, and it may not be fair, but a growing number of people around the world despise the oil and gas industry. It's about as popular as tobacco companies. Albertans don't recognize it, the way I'm sure Virgianians who worked for Philip Morris in 1990 didn't recognize the way their industry was regarded.

And yet global demand for oil rises every year.

Opinion and zero willingness to alter their lifestyles so they blame producers to avoid looking in the mirror.