[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[NiklasSundblad]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

The CalgaryNext FAQ says that it would hold up to 50,000 for "special events", whatever that means.

Grey Cup?

I can't see them hauling in 20000 seats worth of temporary seating for concerts.

If missing out on stadium tours are such a big issue, I don't see how this was ever supposed to address it. The Arena tour thing I get.

Realistically how many times in an average year are there concerts in Commonwealth Stadium? I honestly don't see, regardless of everything else how Alberta can support two 50000+ seat stadiums just so that Metallica and Guns N Roses (these are the only two concerts listed for Commonwealth this year) might consider stopping by?

The Stadium/Fieldhouse was such an overplay it's ridiculous.

If it's so important, build a 30000 seater on Fire Park, or in Highfield at the eventual Green Line station, that can also host soccer. You can put about an additional 10000 people on the floor for concerts. They has the same transit access as McMahon does now, and it's only used for 10 pro football games a year anyway. It would cost less than a fieldhouse alone would cost. A fire park stadium could incorporate one of the best skyline and mountain viewpoints in the city, currently wasted.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Two sold-out events the same night in the respective venues would've been a logistical nightmare from a transportation angle. Even one singular venue or the other would've been problematic. I'm all for re-migitgation of the area, and it was a "nice try" by the Flames to extract public money.

West village would be brutal for this without a major roadway infrastructure
changes but some places make it work if the stadiums are built in the right area.

Cardinals/Coyotes
Avalanche/Broncos
Canucks/Lions
Flyers/Eagles

Also the staples center in LA is next door to the LA convention center which is the largest and most booked convention center in north america.

[NiklasSundblad]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

West village would be brutal for this without a major roadway infrastructure
changes but some places make it work if the stadiums are built in the right area.

Cardinals/Coyotes
Avalanche/Broncos
Canucks/Lions
Flyers/Eagles

Also the staples center in LA is next door to the LA convention center which is the largest and most booked convention center in north america.

The Vancouver situation isn't much better for access, both in tight quarters, but Philly for example is a sea of parking next to I-95 and I-76 as well as being on the main subway line.

Philly's situation works because it's a huge complex of Stadiums on an unbelievably huge area of land, at the intersection of I-96 and I-76, and on a subway line. It's actually hard to understand just how much parking you have to walk through to get from the subway into a baseball game there unless you've done it. I don't think there's a parking lot that big in the entire city of Calgary.

The Pepsi Center in Denver (never been) looks like it's actually pretty separate from Mile High, with a Freeway separating them and Coors Field is also completely isolated.

As for Glendale, well, you could do something similar in Calgary, just build on Stoney Trail in the where it intersects with Trans Canada. on the East Side of town. I bet we could even get a bus stop closer than they have.

The problem with West Village which the Flames didn't even want to mention was that to build something there you really need to realign Bow Trail entirely, fix the mess around 14th Street and 6-9th Ave, and that ultimately means completely rebuilding Crowchild between 17th ave and Kensington Rd.

I think if it was 20 years later a huge pro sports area could be established in Bonnybrook where the rail yard currently is, but according to SCEC and the Sun, we need this 5 years ago.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

West village would be brutal for this without a major roadway infrastructure
changes but some places make it work if the stadiums are built in the right area.

Cardinals/Coyotes
Avalanche/Broncos
Canucks/Lions
Flyers/Eagles

Also the staples center in LA is next door to the LA convention center which is the largest and most booked convention center in north america.

Haven't been to all of these but the Denver situation, for example, is quite different. The football stadium, arena and baseball park are all in the downtown area, but not connected and separated by quite some distances. And none are fieldhouses used for amateur sports.

[PepsiFree]

In Oakland, the A's (and I guess formerly the Raiders) play in the Colisseum which is nearly connected to Oracle arena (home of the Warriors and a bunch of a concerts). It has train access and a huge parking lot, and it seems to work.

I don't know how you would do it without massive parking infrastructure.

[Joborule]

Kanas City is also another city that has both it's football and baseball venues in the same parking lot.

The only way CalgaryNEXT would work is Flames and Stamps games could not be going on at the same time. Hitman games probably also would have to be scheduled around Stamps.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Kanas City is also another city that has both it's football and baseball venues in the same parking lot.

The only way CalgaryNEXT would work is Flames and Stamps games could not be going on at the same time. Hitman games probably also would have to be scheduled around Stamps.

Could it still be used as a fieldhouse during hockey games?

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Could it still be used as a fieldhouse during hockey games?

Yes. In CSEC response report, it did mention that there would be underground parking, with reserved spots for the public use of the fieldhouse.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Yes. In CSEC response report, it did mention that there would be underground parking, with reserved spots for the public use of the fieldhouse.

Thanks. Hadn't heard that. Still seems less than ideal with congestion etc. Imagine a youth soccer tournament or something going on at same time as Flames game.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Thanks. Hadn't heard that. Still seems less than ideal with congestion etc. Imagine a youth soccer tournament or something going on at same time as Flames game.

It would be a total cluster####. when the original plan concedes the need for shuttle busses to and from a single event to multiple parking lots to the surrounding the area, you know it's not going to be ideal. The congestion would be bad enough, but, could you imagine having to rely on shuttle busses in -30 degree weather? And if you had multiple events... yikes.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

We had one and it failed.

Planet Hollywood, then, there are multiple routes to the top.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Planet Hollywood, then, there are multiple routes to the top.

Yes, we need the equivalent of combining a box of moldy People magazines, a Denny's and the Universal Studios lot tour in a restaurant in Calgary. Also, it needs to follow the economics of a strip club that is not allowed to serve liquor. Thank you.

[East Coast Flame]

Originally Posted by NiklasSundblad

Philly's situation works because it's a huge complex of Stadiums on an unbelievably huge area of land, at the intersection of I-96 and I-76, and on a subway line. It's actually hard to understand just how much parking you have to walk through to get from the subway into a baseball game there unless you've done it. I don't think there's a parking lot that big in the entire city of Calgary.

The Philly complex is insane. I once went to an Eagles game in the afternoon and then walked across the parking lot to a Philles playoff game. Probably the drunkest crowd of people I have ever seen. It was awesome

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by East Coast Flame

The Philly complex is insane. I once went to an Eagles game in the afternoon and then walked across the parking lot to a Philles playoff game. Probably the drunkest crowd of people I have ever seen. It was awesome

Look at all that development around it!

In all seriousness though, the only thing worse than an unused black hole of a sports complex sucking life out of an area, is two unused black holes...

In other news, Natpo had a counter-opinion to the Francis article

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-co...ckets-for-free

The quote from Brett Wilson was hilarious.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Cappy

The quote from Brett Wilson was hilarious.

Yeah, I love the idea that any money put towards an arena by the billionaires who will reap all the revenue from it is an altruistic public donation.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The Calgary Sun is basically on the Flames payroll at this point, with almost daily articles aimed at swaying public opinion to get more money for Flames ownership in the arena deal.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2017/05/19...y-for-edmonton

You know, if someone had asked me: "What could make Drake worse?"

The concept of him performing a concert in a Connor McDavid jersey didnt even occur to me. And yet here we are.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Beyond just this, what fascinates me the most about people who are advocating the city must contribute to this is that the Flames are guaranteed to increase the price of tickets, with 20% as the likely minimum increase. Stop and think about that for a second: There are people who are advocating that a for profit, private business (that is already profitable) should receive government funding, with (I would hope) the full knowledge that said private business will turn around and significantly increase the cost, despite the fact that the actual experience itself of watching hockey will not fundamentally get better.

What other business in the world would people actually willingly accept that, much less advocate for it? Sports really does strange things to us, it makes it quite irrational at times. Imagine Husky asking for money for a new office complex, then turning around and raising gas prices 20%. Or a property management company getting new digs partially paid for by government and raising rents 20%? People would be apoplectic, politicians would be biting the dust. Yet with sports….not so much. It’s a fascinating phenomenon. I fully get it from the rich fan’s perspective, but anyone who is an average fan who is pushing for public funding…I really don’t get it.

The Flames are simply looking to make more money here, and so people who think their priority will be considering the upper bowl fans are in for a very rude awakening. Also, saying “well they hopefully will learn from Edmonton” kind of ignores that they haven’t learned anything from Edmonton up to this point in the process, so why start now? If they wanna fully fund it themselves and design a pleb free arena with 40% price increases, more power to them. But the city should be looking out for the average Calgarian first and foremost, and the average Calgarian won't benefit anywhere near as much from this new building as the rich fans (and even richer owners). And that's a big problem here for many of us against public funding.

Great post with one minor caveat.

Large for-profit businesses frequently receive money from the government to help them build infrastructure, pay their CEOs huge bonuses, bail them out from irresponsible spending and losses, buy jobs (under threat they'll leave without what is essentially a bribe).

Then they do exactly what you said. They raise prices and screw the consumer, while the government gets nothing tangible out of it and the company will just come back to the well in a few years or else threaten to leave for a sweeter deal yet again.

And voters are not apoplectic nor do politicians bite the dust. Nothing happens and we all just move on with our lives, while the goverment raises our taxes, cuts our services and pays more billions of $$ to the multibillion dollar businesses.

Tons of links out there so I won't cite anything. Bombardier was just in the news for this though. And funny that you mentioned Husky. In 2014 they got something like $75m in government handouts.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Yeah, I love the idea that any money put towards an arena by the billionaires who will reap all the revenue from it is an altruistic public donation.

Yeah, I don't know what he was trying to accomplish by saying that but the only thing it did was make me think that Brett Wilson is an out of touch POS.

Almost made me want to see Nashville lose to Anaheim (Almost).

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Great post with one minor caveat.

Large for-profit businesses frequently receive money from the government to help them build infrastructure, pay their CEOs huge bonuses, bail them out from irresponsible spending and losses, buy jobs (under threat they'll leave without what is essentially a bribe).

Then they do exactly what you said. They raise prices and screw the consumer, while the government gets nothing tangible out of it and the company will just come back to the well in a few years or else threaten to leave for a sweeter deal yet again.

And voters are not apoplectic nor do politicians bite the dust. Nothing happens and we all just move on with our lives, while the goverment raises our taxes, cuts our services and pays more billions of $$ to the multibillion dollar businesses.

Tons of links out there so I won't cite anything. Bombardier was just in the news for this though. And funny that you mentioned Husky. In 2014 they got something like $75m in government handouts.

So because we have been burned by bad public policy in the past we should continue to be burned by bad public policy?

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

In Oakland, the A's (and I guess formerly the Raiders) play in the Colisseum which is nearly connected to Oracle arena (home of the Warriors and a bunch of a concerts). It has train access and a huge parking lot, and it seems to work.

I don't know how you would do it without massive parking infrastructure.

I get what your saying about the parking, but the Raiders are gonzo. A's would already be in a new stadium in San Jose if the Giants hadn't have screwed them and will be moving if they don't get a new stadium, and the Warriors are moving to the Chase Center in San Francisco for the 2019 season. I don't know if i'd say it's working for those complexes in Oakland.