[News] New Arena - Plan B - Victoria Park

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yup, you'd be laughing all right. Laughing without a NHL team and not another one on the horizon. How exactly would the ownership lose hundreds of millions of dollars? And what makes Calgary a better market than Seattle anyway? I'd imagine the owners would love to get a 35% boost just from the dollar alone. I think you are grossly underestimating the Seattle market and over-estimating the Calgary market.

Seattle will have at least three, possibly four pro teams who will be more popular than an NHL team (don't underestimate the Sounders), and UW football has an elite coach and was just in the playoff. Seattle is not LA or NY or Chicago, there's only so much sports dollar to go around, and there's also more entertainment options besides sports in Seattle than there is in Calgary. The NHL team would need to be really good, really fast to not become a total afterthought in that market.

Also have to fight hard for corporate dollars. In Calgary, no offense to the Stamps, the Flames have no competition. I think you're confusing me thinking Seattle is a terrible market. Seattle is simply not a better market for an NHL team than Calgary by any objective analysis. Seattle as a market probably won't be awful like say Phoenix or Raleigh, but if everything were equal as an owner you'd much rather have an NHL team in Calgary than Seattle. You will make more money, possibly by far.

[CliffFletcher]

I don't think King and Burke are unintelligent. But they sure seem out of touch with how average people regard money and sports. One of the least attractive things about professional sports is the bubble of blithe entitlement that surrounds almost everybody in it.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Two things:

1) a sweet arena deal can go a long way to covering any difference in gate revenues between Calgary and Quebec, and

2) By selling, they realize their value in the team and can re-invest the money anywhere.

They would not lose anything, never mind hundreds of millions of dollars.

They wouldn't be selling the team. They would be moving the team.
Plus, moving would cost millions.

Calgary is twice the size of Quebec, and the gap is quickly growing.
No matter the arena deal, I don't see a Seattle/Quebec team coming close to a Calgary team in terms of evaluation.

Speaking of valuation, the majority of a franchise's value is based on their financials. Few teams own their arenas, so the revenue, balance sheet, profit, etc determine the value of the team.
Their valuation would be crushed almost immediately.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Hmmmmm all the Keynesian left wingers have now become tax payer advocates?

As opposed to Friedmanites suddenly promoting corporate welfare?

Stimulating growth in a stagnate economy tends to work best when those taxpayer dollars are put into public infrastructure that can be used by all the citizens that are paying into it for decades to come...

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

They wouldn't be selling the team. They would be moving the team.
Plus, moving would cost millions.

Calgary is twice the size of Quebec, and the gap is quickly growing.
No matter the arena deal, I don't see a Seattle/Quebec team coming close to a Calgary team in terms of evaluation.

Speaking of valuation, the majority of a franchise's value is based on their financials. Few teams own their arenas, so the revenue, balance sheet, profit, etc determine the value of the team.
Their valuation would be crushed almost immediately.

Sorry, I missed that memo

[monkeyman]

Nice of Brian Burke to ask for hundreds of millions to billions of dollars from city taxpayers, and at the same time ask for a tax break for players making more in a lifetime than most of the people he expects to pay for his new arena and stadium. Oh, and we're supposed to say thank you for the opportunity.

[Northendzone]

I,am rolling on the floor laughing at burkes suggestion that hockey players should get a tax break because they have a short career.....someone should let Burke know that if you were to work for 45 years in Canada and you were to average $100,000 per year, you will gross $4,500,000. But lots of people would make nowhere near that

I am certain the lowest paid NHL player would make what $700,000 US - so he only needs to get in 4 seasons to make his $4,000,000 Canadian......yeah, hockey players need tax breaks....insert head banging against wall emoticon.

The flames have bungled this arena thing royally...they need to ask for a mulligan and start all over. Nenshi and the councillors need to determine how much they are prepared to give, and tell everyone that number, so that a rationale dialog can take place.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ha ha ha the overreaction in this thread is hilarious.

I agree. Also, if a guy is going to make a threat to move, this is how you should do it lol. I think Burke is being a tool but there's almost something respectable about it at the same time.

[Freeway]

Uh... Nenshi's gone from "no public money" in 2015 to "public money for public benefit" as of early in 2016. He's moved quite a bit.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Uh... Nenshi's gone from "no public money" in 2015 to "public money for public benefit" as of early in 2016. He's moved quite a bit.

So, you're saying there's a chance!

For the record, i've said previously that I am ok with some public money going into this... just a question of how much... i definitely see Victoria Park being the preferred site however.

seeing how Bridgestone Arena is right downtown without the acres of parking in front is something the new arena in calgary needs to do... definitely would help integrate that building into the surrounding fabric... or at least a couple of sides should connect with public spaces

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Hmmmmm all the Keynesian left wingers have now become tax payer advocates?

*giant fart noise*

[heep223]

I don't know why in these conversations about how it's so much more tax-friendly in the US, people just ignore the fact that when you die the government takes half your money down there. Not so here.

It seems like this organization is starting to crack a bit, might be a question of too many cooks in the kitchen.

[Par]

I think the Flames are going to wait until the new mayor comes in, they will try to get "their guy" into the Mayors office by supporting one or two candidates that are pro arena.

As for the equalization payments, ever since it has come into effect, Quebec has always been receiving them and has never contributed to it.

[Tinordi]

Please stop with the untethered ignorant griping about equalization.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

For the record, i've said previously that I am ok with some public money going into this... just a question of how much... i definitely see Victoria Park being the preferred site however.

Maybe it's just me and some anecdotal evidence, but I get the impression that a lot of people (including the city) are moving that way. "Well, we do need a new arena, so maybe...".

Burke's idiotic, arrogant comments today no doubt turned some people right off again.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don't think King and Burke are unintelligent. But they sure seem out of touch with how average people regard money and sports. One of the least attractive things about professional sports is the bubble of blithe entitlement that surrounds almost everybody in it.

Normally I agree with you on most things but here, after that statement... no, I'm not sure I agree. That was probably the most unintelligent public discussion I've ever heard anyone from the Flames organization ever unleash.

It was like he is looking for a severance package.

[Wormius]

It feels almost like the Calgary Flames are trying to break up with us, not in the soft way but in a mean way that makes you angry and happy that they are gone.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm surprised this part hasn't come up yet.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...next-1.4150420

So what is he trying to do, become the villain of the organization here? We know he's a smart guy. This is something a stupid person says. What's the angle here?

The doctor example is particularly strange/ many are still training when the average - and even veteran nhler has retired - there is the odd 80'year old still practicing but a 45 year career isn't exactly commonplace

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Maybe it's just me and some anecdotal evidence, but I get the impression that a lot of people (including the city) are moving that way. "Well, we do need a new arena, so maybe...".

Burke's idiotic, arrogant comments today no doubt turned some people right off again.

IMO, i think the Flames either A) made a big miscalculation on the appetite of taxpayers on the giant CalgaryNext project or B) that was a red herring proposal that was used to set the bar really high so that a new arena alone wouldn't seem "that expensive" in comparison.

Either way, I don't think Calgarians are 100% against it - obviously there are extremes on either end of the continuum. Burke's comments definitely didn't help those leaning towards saying No however...but that will probably reset by tomorrow or the weeks to come

I think it becomes a question of determining what is a "fair or reasonable" number for the taxpayers...

[GGG]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Hmmmmm all the Keynesian left wingers have now become tax payer advocates?

Because Keynesian economics at least is based on the theory that the subsidies generate growth that outweighs the subsidy. The evidence points to this not occurring on arenas so a Keynesian favouring subsidizing someone else

It does however make sense that those who back trickle down economics also back Arena subsidies as both are failed generators of economic growth.