Dougie Hamilton - Was there more to this trade than meets the eye?

[Classic_Sniper]

Personally, I think Dougie wanted out. I think he was still fuming from his brother getting traded. The media that he did when Freddie was traded and th media that he didn’t do after the exit interviews was a real eye opener. I’ve seen Dougie out in public with other guys when he first arrived, he just didn’t seem comfortable. He was on his phone all night while everyone else was having a great time.

He’s just not the most social guy and that’s perfectly fine. He’s more comfortable around his brother as they’ve been joined at the hips seemingly forever. Even when Dougie was in Boston, Freddie played in Worcester, so they probably lived together then as well. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Freddie was traded to Carolina before September.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well ya.....thats what all rumours and why players are traded becomes on a discussion forum.

Though I will ask you this...in regards to being asked if Hamilton wanted out, what do you think BT meant when he stated this (as AC already posted)?

If anything significant I’d bet he’s referring to Dougie being unhappy, off ice training issues, lack of determination/heart/hate to lose attitude than it does character issues, being a loner or being smart.

[Manhattanboy]

If all this is about is a guy being smart, a bookworm, loner etc then I have nothing.

From what I hear from friends very close to the team is that we have a couple of very immature “core” players with real off ice judgement issues. Hopefully they grow up.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

If all this is about is a guy being smart, a bookworm, loner etc then I have nothing.

From what I hear from friends very close to the team is that we have a couple of very immature “core” players with serious off ice judgement issues.

This applies to EVERY professional sports team. Everywhere. And ever.

They are kids. Paid ridiculous money. And have tons of free time.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well ya.....thats what all rumours and why players are traded becomes on a discussion forum.

Though I will ask you this...in regards to being asked if Hamilton wanted out, what do you think BT meant when he stated this (as AC already posted)?

Only since you asked, so out of mutual respect. There have been many examples of top athletes that seldom hang out with their team mates at bars etc.

I will give you a perfect example one of the Greatest players ever my personal #1 Bobby Orr was known for not cutting it up often with his team mates when he was younger. Espo, Bobby, Cherry, Samderson have all discussed that in their books and Interviews. I took Orr until around 1974 to come out of his shell.

As for BT I don't know what he said post trade but according to some on CP he said there were other reasons and Hamilton didn't want to be here? If BT really said that then that is petty of Treliving, a GM should not take the bait and take the high road. Dougie was a good guy we hate to see him go, he scored some big goals but we needed to move in a different direction and CAR really wanted Dougie and Ferly and we really wanted Elias and Noah. The players we traded will fit in well with CAR and we are extremely excited about the talent we have added.
If Treliving stuck to j(ust that) everybody is happy and he doesn't open the door to gossip.

[GoJetsGo]

I think with Tre's comments it's fine to conclude there were reasons they thought it made sense to move on. I wasn't crazy about the trade at first but after hearing him choose his words so carefully (and via the high road) and the fact Fox wasn't signing here, I can live with it.

The tough part is the stuff like Cliff's constant need to pinpoint and vilify the guy when we have no idea what the actual issues were.

Way to many "well I think we can assume" posts that do nothing put throw dirt and promote ignorance.

There's just no need to throw a guy under the bus on the way out the door. He's still a young enough guy hopefully he finds a good situation in Carolina because he's a great hockey player. The point above is an apt one. These are young guys in their late teens / early to mid 20s with millions of dollars. Most people have their issues at that age without the fame and money.

On the flip side, like Treliving said, it's infectious to hear how happy Hanifin was about coming to Calgary. Despite not being crazy about what we gave up I'm very excited to see the new (younger) players next season.

[ricardodw]

Hamilton did not get selected to play on the under 25 team at the world cup.

There was some sort of conspiracy by Edmonton management to make the Flames look bad? This did not extend to Monahan and Gaudreau.

His omission from that team indicated that he was not as highly regarded by the hockey people in general as he was by the Flames.

He played on Team Canada twice at the WJC getting bronze and a 4th place finish and nothing since turning pro.

It is ironic that he was the Top academic high school player in the OHL and was CHL Scholastic Player of the Year the next year yet seemed to have a low hockey IQ.

Too smart to learn?

It would be exasperating for everyone on the ice when a brainiac can't catch on to where the coach wants him on the ice and high school drop outs can pick it up intuitively.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

As for BT I don't know what he said post trade but according to some on CP he said there were other reasons and Hamilton didn't want to be here? If BT really said that then that is petty of Treliving,

Good lord, how did the irony allow you to post that?

You have no idea what he said, but leap to assuming he was petty and start ripping him for it?

When yesterday you bragged and admittedly went up to his face and were purposely petty to him?

Go and listen yourself:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big...al-hurricanes/


He couldn't have been more diplomatic and classy in discussing it *when directly asked about it*

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

To me it seems like a lot of fans including yourself wanted to pin the "okay with losing" tag on guys like Gaudreau, Hamilton, Monahan, etc because of an uninformed Francis article.

There were multiple comments from media and NHL insiders, in Calgary and outside Calgary, including allusions by Flames management themselves, that there was a problem with the try level and resilience on the team. You can choose to pretend it was all just fabricated by Francis if you want to.

NHLer's shouldn't need a coach to inspire them to try hard every game, ever shift, with or without the puck. The best pros are self-starters and bear down on all elements of the game, not just scoring. I took Treliving's comment that this team was too young to lead itself as an indictment of the players more than GG.

[Oil Stain]

It would be great if people would ignore the TMZ side of hockey.

It's that kind of stuff that makes players want to avoid Canada.

[The Cobra]

My view is that the Flames felt that Hamilton (and for sure Brodie) were propped up by playing with Gio, and the Flames felt they could cash out and trade Hamilton while his value was high and get stronger elsewhere.

If Brodie can return to his previous form by playing with Gio again, you all of sudden strengthened the team in a number of ways.

The thinking is that Hanifin and the Gio version of Brodie is as good or better than Hamilton and the non-Gio version of Brodie. Because the non-Gio version of Brodie was truly awful.

Lindholm then becomes an obvious upgrade over Ferland.

The fact that Hanifin and Lindholm should shortly be signed to contracts with longer control, is a bonus.

It's funny that I truly believe that Brodie's ability to reclaim his previous form playing with Gio is likely the key to this deal panning out favourably for the Flames.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by AC

The comments in all the clutter that stick out is Treliving saying "We take everything into consideration, both on and off the ice. I don't share a lot of things that players share with me."

Sure sounds like Dougie told Treliving he wanted a trade. If a player doesn't want to be on the team, I think it inherently will affect his compete level and desire to win with that team.

That's not how I took it. I took that as players wanting him out.

Either way, I see nothing wrong with speculation, but the certainty some people have with their conclusions is silly (you did not do that here. I'm speaking generally).

There's a few takes that seem patently ridiculous to me:

1) "So what if he's academic, that shouldn't matter to a GM". There's zero evidence that's why he's been traded twice. There's zero evidence any player dislikes a teammate because he's "academic". A person with only a high school education isn't really an "academic" anyways. Huge strawman.

2) "Dougie didn't want to win, or was not a good teammate". There's nothing but speculation on this. No teammate has said as much and Treliving didn't say it either. It may be true, but it's a pretty vague assertion backed up by only gut feelings, so no one should be so sure about this.

3) "Unless Dougie committed murder or some other heinous crime, his on ice play was good, so he shouldn't be traded". A GM has to keep his team a place where players want to play. If situations arise that have to be resolved, you cannot just let it be because on ice play is so important. I do not know if that's the case here, but neither do you. There isn't some vague on ice benefit to be had from a happy dressing room, but getting and keeping other players is important. These aren't machines we're dealing with.

[Demaeon]

Originally Posted by AC

The comments in all the clutter that stick out is Treliving saying "We take everything into consideration, both on and off the ice. I don't share a lot of things that players share with me."

Sure sounds like Dougie told Treliving he wanted a trade. If a player doesn't want to be on the team, I think it inherently will affect his compete level and desire to win with that team.

And combined with his response during the draft floor interview when asked about chemistry in the room, where he mentions right away how Ferland was a warrior for them, and the 2 new pieces will fit in fine. Then goes on to say something about how after last year the dressing room needed a change, and that this was a step in that direction (I'm paraphrasing by memory), but not one mention of Hamilton in the entire answer.


Maybe it's just me, but seemed pretty telling.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The team was poorly coached. Really would you expect a team that's going to jump through walls to win for an nice guy coach that was in over his head? To me it seems like a lot of fans including yourself wanted to pin the "okay with losing" tag on guys like Gaudreau, Hamilton, Monahan, etc because of an uninformed Francis article. The coach got fired and the new coach wanted to bring a few players from his old team that he thought could help the Flames and the truth is that guys like Brodie and Hamonic were not going to get that deal done. If for whatever reason the Hurricanes decide they want to keep those players I don't think Hamilton was burning a hole in Treliving's pocket that he had to move him. It's simply a matter of teams having to give up a lot to get a lot.

This is contrary to what Peters said in his interview. He stated directly that he had limited involvement in this trade, but that (obviously) he did give his opinions of the players when asked. As I recall, he stated the scouts were more involved than he was.

[Bill Bumface]

I watched Hamilton throw a 30 minute long tantrum in practice with my own eyes. The day after the Flames had a big win and he had 3 points I think. The trainers were on the hook to clean up the scattered Gatorade bottles (which splashed fans as he sent them flying) and the 10 pieces of his stick.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Vox

This is contrary to what Peters said in his interview. He stated directly that he had limited involvement in this trade, but that (obviously) he did give his opinions of the players when asked. As I recall, he stated the scouts were more involved than he was.

Not to mention in Tre's interview he was asked about this and said of course he asked Bill for his take but expressly said he did not make this trade, I did.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

It would be great if people would ignore the TMZ side of hockey.

It's that kind of stuff that makes players want to avoid Canada.

And yet we pretty much never hear about soccer players, football players (NFL and college), baseball players, basketball players, Formula One drivers or any other major sport acting like such crybabies if they have to play in a major market. You look at the hottest markets in other major sports and when was the last time you heard they couldn’t sign someone because the player couldn’t handle the pressure? It’s rare. And yet in the nhl it is a constant concern.

I get that it can be more difficult in Canada compared to certain markets in the United States but I would hardly describe anything about the Hamilton situation as TMZ.

I get it’s difficult and the media can be ridiculous sometimes but these guys need to learn how to manage the situation. Players in every other sport in the world seem to manage (most of the time) without having to go sign in some obscure market.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Not to mention in Tre's interview he was asked about this and said of course he asked Bill for his take but expressly said he did not make this trade, I did.

I got a kick out of that. Imagine if Sutter was the coach and BT made a big trade. I always suspected potential for political issues precluded some candidate coaches.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

And yet we pretty much never hear about soccer players, football players (NFL and college), baseball players, basketball players, Formula One drivers or any other major sport acting like such crybabies if they have to play in a major market. You look at the hottest markets in other major sports and when was the last time you heard they couldn’t sign someone because the player couldn’t handle the pressure? It’s rare. And yet in the nhl it is a constant concern.

I get that it can be more difficult in Canada compared to certain markets in the United States but I would hardly describe anything about the Hamilton situation as TMZ.

I get it’s difficult and the media can be ridiculous sometimes but these guys need to learn how to manage the situation. Players in every other sport in the world seem to manage (most of the time) without having to go sign in some obscure market.

There are plenty of examples where players want to play in Canada to experience the fanatical market. Where hockey is the most important thing and everything a player does is analyzed and appreciated.

Statsny (with guidance from his Dad) wanted the experience of playing in a Canadian market. His dad felt that playing in the Quebec games against Montreal were a fuller experience than playing with St.L and NJ.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

And yet we pretty much never hear about soccer players, football players (NFL and college), baseball players, basketball players, Formula One drivers or any other major sport acting like such crybabies if they have to play in a major market. You look at the hottest markets in other major sports and when was the last time you heard they couldn’t sign someone because the player couldn’t handle the pressure? It’s rare. And yet in the nhl it is a constant concern.

I get that it can be more difficult in Canada compared to certain markets in the United States but I would hardly describe anything about the Hamilton situation as TMZ.

I get it’s difficult and the media can be ridiculous sometimes but these guys need to learn how to manage the situation. Players in every other sport in the world seem to manage (most of the time) without having to go sign in some obscure market.

I don't follow other sports so I can't really speak on that subject.

I do know that in hockey its perfectly possible for a player to play in a major market, on a winning team in the United States and not have to deal with anywhere near the intrusion in their personal life that they would have to put up with in Canada.

I don't think avoiding a fishbowl situation makes anyone a crybaby. It just makes them a rational decision maker.