Tre: Probably not likely Flames get 1st rnd pick. All injured players are now healthy

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The Flames are about to enter their contending window.

Treliving does value picks and prospects. We had an abundance of them so he converted some of them into a physical defensive defenseman in his prime in Hamonic. That was an important piece to get as we completely lacked anyone who could fill that role prior to the Hamonic trade. The Flames had a wealth of young players, prospects and picks and therefore we could afford to move some. Doesn’t mean Treliving didn’t value them.

Don’t really understand why some hate the Hamonic deal. He was an important piece to acquire in the grand scheme of things. Do we need secondary scoring as well? Yes of course, but that’s a separate issue. Obviously it will need to be addressed this season. But we were always going to need one physical defensive defensemen added, that’s an important role to fill long term and none of our puck moving dmen fit the bill exactly. You have to have one physical defensive defensman who can play top 4 and first P.K. unit in order to make it hard for the opposition to get to the front of the net and get easy screens, tips and rebounds.

I agree that with Engelland on the way out that the Flames needed to acquire a physical stay-at-home type. Keep in mind they also re-signed Michael STone, who is no slouch in that department, either.

I think what fans take issue with (myself included) is the steep price the Flames paid for what was clearly a declining player. The Hamonic that requested a trade might have been worth that, the Hamonic of two seasons later? Not so much. At this point, he might only have a slight edge on Michael Stone as a borderline top four defenceman. The Islanders knew they may have held on too long and were likely surprised there was still a sucker in the room. Sure Hamonic is technically in his prime, but his stats suggest he peaked three seasons ago.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

The Flames are about to enter their contending window.

Treliving does value picks and prospects. We had an abundance of them so he converted some of them into a physical defensive defenseman in his prime in Hamonic. That was an important piece to get as we completely lacked anyone who could fill that role prior to the Hamonic trade. The Flames had a wealth of young players, prospects and picks and therefore we could afford to move some. Doesn’t mean Treliving didn’t value them.

Don’t really understand why some hate the Hamonic deal. He was an important piece to acquire in the grand scheme of things. Do we need secondary scoring as well? Yes of course, but that’s a separate issue. Obviously it will need to be addressed this season. But we were always going to need one physical defensive defensemen added, that’s an important role to fill long term and none of our puck moving dmen fit the bill exactly. You have to have one physical defensive defensman who can play top 4 and first P.K. unit in order to make it hard for the opposition to get to the front of the net and get easy screens, tips and rebounds.

Yeah they went large for the 2015 and 2016 drafts having 9 picks in each.

They converted those picks in one case and drafted nine in the other.

The bottom line is they bolstered their prospect core and changed the game plan going forward. With Andersson, Kylington, Mangiapane, Tkachuk, Parsons, Fox, Dube, Phillips and to a lesser extent Tuulola and Lindstrom looking like above average to home run picks they had the opportunity to spend more futures then they would have if they had only found the NHL average haul of 2-3 prospects in each draft.

So they went after two holes with picks and brought in Smith and Hamonic. I get it. It made sense.

And Hamonic is a good player, he'll be fine, and he'll likely to better than the resulting sum of the picks when it all comes to roost.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I agree that with Engelland on the way out that the Flames needed to acquire a physical stay-at-home type. Keep in mind they also re-signed Michael STone, who is no slouch in that department, either.

I think what fans take issue with (myself included) is the steep price the Flames paid for what was clearly a declining player. The Hamonic that requested a trade might have been worth that, the Hamonic of two seasons later? Not so much. At this point, he might only have a slight edge on Michael Stone as a borderline top four defenceman. The Islanders knew they may have held on too long and were likely surprised there was still a sucker in the room. Sure Hamonic is technically in his prime, but his stats suggest he peaked three seasons ago.

Well it’ll be interesting to see if Hamonic is better in his 2nd season on the Flames and in the west. Perhaps we’ll see him not paired with Brodie or perhaps Brodie ups his game. Peters has mentioned he thinks Hamonic will be better this upcoming season. He is in his prime, it’s dangerous to read declines in players careers they can often have resurgences. Hamonic is in his 20’s and we’ve seen guys have huge comeback years in their late 30’s. So I don’t buy this idea that he’s declining one bit.

As for Hamonic vs Stone we had neither when we acquired Hamonic. Some people regret that trade but if Treliving hasn’t acquired Hamonic and we hadn’t signed Stone defense would have been a big issue last year

I’d do the Hamonic trade again frankly. He fills a need and was acquired for market value. Yes Treliving probably should’ve signed Jagr two months earlier so that he would’ve been ready for camp or acquired secondary scoring another way. IMO the biggest problem with our secondary scoring issue was the way GG constructed his lines and I think Peters can coax more goals out of this lineup by merely tweaking the existing player usage. That said I fully expect Treliving to acquire one more top 6 forward this offseason to really help that depth.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Peters should tweak the player usage, but I also think that if the Flames play a more uptempo system, with the Defence activating more, then then goals will come.



Ward alone should be an upgrade over Cameron, so again, goals will come.


I think the greatest strength on this team is their defensive corps, and IMO they were horribly misused under Gulutzan. Flames have racehorses that should have been racing all season, but Gulutzan instead put then all on the yoke and had them plowing the fields.



I still have some concerns when it comes to Peters and how Carolina's weaknesses mirrored Calgary's in some ways, but if you believe Peters and the rest of the staff they hired, then 2018-19 Calgary Flames will be playing much faster with a much quicker transition, the D will be green-lighted to jump in and support the offence, and they will do a better job of attacking the net.



That is why I am not concerned at all if the Flames make zero lineup moves from now until the season starts. Of course I would rather they acquire another top 6 forward, but I don't think it is as much of a necessity as it seemed last season.

[wired]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

probably not surprising to most:

http://calgarysun.com/sports/hockey/...box=1529104979



He does acknowledge this though:




Also from NHL.com:

https://www.nhl.com/news/calgary-fla...?tid=284438166

Everyone who was injured has been medically cleared:



Also of note:
Says he can see Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington, Mangiapane, and Foo pushing for spots at camp.

Talked to a guy at work who knows Spencer very well. He is training all summer and is slowly gaining size. Going to push hard for a spot on the team.

[Freeway]

Foo looked really good in the late season NHL and AHL games.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And Hamonic is a good player, he'll be fine, and he'll likely to better than the resulting sum of the picks when it all comes to roost.

Except for when someone undoubtedly makes the argument that the Flames would have magically selected the best player taken anywhere following each of those draft spots.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Peters should tweak the player usage, but I also think that if the Flames play a more uptempo system, with the Defence activating more, then then goals will come.



Ward alone should be an upgrade over Cameron, so again, goals will come.


I think the greatest strength on this team is their defensive corps, and IMO they were horribly misused under Gulutzan. Flames have racehorses that should have been racing all season, but Gulutzan instead put then all on the yoke and had them plowing the fields.



I still have some concerns when it comes to Peters and how Carolina's weaknesses mirrored Calgary's in some ways, but if you believe Peters and the rest of the staff they hired, then 2018-19 Calgary Flames will be playing much faster with a much quicker transition, the D will be green-lighted to jump in and support the offence, and they will do a better job of attacking the net.



That is why I am not concerned at all if the Flames make zero lineup moves from now until the season starts. Of course I would rather they acquire another top 6 forward, but I don't think it is as much of a necessity as it seemed last season.

Your post is how I feel too. I think the need for a top 6 winger is something that would be nice to have, but IMO it's a of a 'want' then a 'need'. The Flames have something on the backend that very few teams have. That is 3 D who can potentially put up 40+ points. Most teams are lucky to have 1. Flames have 3 who can legit put up that many points if utilised correctly. Unfortunately, Gulutzan's systems didn't utilise them as efficiently as he could have.

Get the D playing up to their potential, and suddenly it masks a lot of the issues the team has up front. Last season Hamilton was the only D who broke 40 pts. IMO that was completely unacceptable when you have players like the Flames have offensively on the back end, and was a big reason the depth as a whole suffered. Even though Hamilton still broke 40 pts, I still found his season to be disappointing offensively. Sure he lead the D in goal scoring league wide. But that was a misleading stat, as overall it was a down year for D goal scoring overall and he had 50+ the season before. Hamilton was still way off the leader's pace of 68 points. 21st overall. Nothing to brag about.

To me that's the biggest need for the Flames next season; to get the D playing up to their potential and to utilise them as a weapon that very few other teams have. It's also why I'm reluctant to trade Brodie before seeing how he does under Peters' system. 3 seasons ago he was on the Olympic team's radar and a top 20 D. Then GG comes along, and for 2 seasons he's suddenly in a big decline. Get Brodie back to form, and it changes the entire dynamic of the team.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Foo looked really good in the late season NHL and AHL games.

I would be disappointed if Foo didn't make the team. Making the Flames bottom 6 should not be difficult and Foo looked good when he was called up. I'd say 80% chance he's on the opening day roster.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

I would be disappointed if Foo didn't make the team. Making the Flames bottom 6 should not be difficult and Foo looked good when he was called up. I'd say 80% chance he's on the opening day roster.

Ferland-Backlund-Foo

I think that would be a really good third line moving forward.

[Samonadreau]

On this whole price to acquire Hamonic being too high - its not just whether hamonic is worth the picks given up it's really the fact that going into that trade I guarantee Tre thought with a Hamonic inserted in the lineup this would be a playoff team and possibly make some noise. If you put him on a polygraph after this season went the way it did and that pick ended up a 12th OA I am curious if he would have done that trade again.

He might and he might not, either way it would be interesting to find out.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I agree that with Engelland on the way out that the Flames needed to acquire a physical stay-at-home type. Keep in mind they also re-signed Michael STone, who is no slouch in that department, either.

I think what fans take issue with (myself included) is the steep price the Flames paid for what was clearly a declining player. The Hamonic that requested a trade might have been worth that, the Hamonic of two seasons later? Not so much. At this point, he might only have a slight edge on Michael Stone as a borderline top four defenceman. The Islanders knew they may have held on too long and were likely surprised there was still a sucker in the room. Sure Hamonic is technically in his prime, but his stats suggest he peaked three seasons ago.

By all accounts multiple teams made the Islanders the same offer...they thought the Calgary picks were likely to be higher. Calgary paid market rate...to suggest they just gave the Islanders whatever they wanted is false. Toronto/Edmonton (maybe more) would have made the same deal...Burke has even said as much since leaving theteam.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by dino7c

By all accounts multiple teams made the Islanders the same offer...they thought the Calgary picks were likely to be higher. Calgary paid market rate...to suggest they just gave the Islanders whatever they wanted is false. Toronto/Edmonton (maybe more) would have made the same deal...Burke has even said as much since leaving theteam.

I think they overpaid compared to getting a player of Hamilton’s caliber and potential for the same deal. It may have been the going rate but still not worth it. More to the point I think those were too many futures to give up given the state of the farm system on the F side.

[CMPunk]

Foo did just spend 4 days in town with the power skating coach ahead of the Rookie camp.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I think they overpaid compared to getting a player of Hamilton’s caliber and potential for the same deal. It may have been the going rate but still not worth it. More to the point I think those were too many futures to give up given the state of the farm system on the F side.

Two different years, two different anticipated draft position and two different contract positions for the player as well. People overlook how attractive Hamonic's contract is.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I think they overpaid compared to getting a player of Hamilton’s caliber and potential for the same deal. It may have been the going rate but still not worth it. More to the point I think those were too many futures to give up given the state of the farm system on the F side.

But the counter-point is that it is premature to evaluate this trade solely on the basis of the results of this past season. If the Flames make some noise in the remaining two years of Hamonic's deal, suddenly this looks like a very good trade.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well it’ll be interesting to see if Hamonic is better in his 2nd season on the Flames and in the west. Perhaps we’ll see him not paired with Brodie or perhaps Brodie ups his game. Peters has mentioned he thinks Hamonic will be better this upcoming season. He is in his prime, it’s dangerous to read declines in players careers they can often have resurgences. Hamonic is in his 20’s and we’ve seen guys have huge comeback years in their late 30’s. So I don’t buy this idea that he’s declining one bit.

As for Hamonic vs Stone we had neither when we acquired Hamonic. Some people regret that trade but if Treliving hasn’t acquired Hamonic and we hadn’t signed Stone defense would have been a big issue last year

I’d do the Hamonic trade again frankly. He fills a need and was acquired for market value. Yes Treliving probably should’ve signed Jagr two months earlier so that he would’ve been ready for camp or acquired secondary scoring another way. IMO the biggest problem with our secondary scoring issue was the way GG constructed his lines and I think Peters can coax more goals out of this lineup by merely tweaking the existing player usage. That said I fully expect Treliving to acquire one more top 6 forward this offseason to really help that depth.

To add to this, Stone is a fantastic guy to call up and act as a #4 for short stints. However, I would not want him in my top 4 full time. The Flames absolutely needed another top 4 dman last year.

[CliffFletcher]

The issue is the Flames spent 2 x 1st round picks and 4 x 2nd round picks for their #2 and #4 d-men. In a league where the foundation of success has become drafting and development you can't sustain a deficit of picks for long without it catching up to you.

The counter is that the team is in Win Now mode, so picks will be spent to fill out the roster. But a team in Win Now finishing 20th is a problem.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The issue is the Flames spent 2 x 1st round picks and 4 x 2nd round picks for their #2 and #4 d-men. In a league where the foundation of success has become drafting and development you can't sustain a deficit of picks for long without it catching up to you.

The counter is that the team is in Win Now mode, so picks will be spent to fill out the roster. But a team in Win Now finishing 20th is a problem.

Another counter is those picks were used on young players, on good contracts, who are part of a young core.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by CMPunk

Foo did just spend 4 days in town with the power skating coach ahead of the Rookie camp.

I wonder if he went to FOO Restaurant in Mission.