Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Maybe you should remind them of that. Right now they are just Liberal junior and are clearly failing to separate themselves as an alternative.

NDP voters of 2024.

"We are not the Liberals" despite literally everyone knowing that they're Liberal puppets.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Maybe you should remind them of that. Right now they are just Liberal junior and are clearly failing to separate themselves as an alternative.

It's more accurate to say the Liberals are NDP senior.
The NDP are getting their policies through and influencing the government, can't blame them for that.

For that same reason, the NDP are not a viable alternative to someone who thinks the Liberals have gone too far left and I expect their election results will show that's what the population wants.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

It's more accurate to say the Liberals are NDP senior.
The NDP are getting their policies through and influencing the government, can't blame them for that.

For that same reason, the NDP are not a viable alternative to someone who thinks the Liberals have gone too far left and I expect their election results will show that's what the population wants.

I have no illusions about the NDP winning the next election. Tying their horse to the Liberal wagon has done as much damage to their brand as it has benefited Canadians.

But I have little doubt that if the Cons win and they inevitably make life worse for the average Canadian as their provincial counterparts have successfully done across the country, that the NDP will be in a prime position to offer something Canadians actually value.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Would you consider the Bloc and NDP to be 'fringe elements' in the same way you contextualized the risk in Israeli political coalitions?

A separatist party I would most certainly classify as fringe. I don't consider NDP fringe.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

For that same reason, the NDP are not a viable alternative to someone who thinks the Liberals have gone too far left and I expect their election results will show that's what the population wants.

Even if they're left of the Liberals, they're still a better option than someone who gets a ringing endorsement from Alex Jones.

"They're a little too far left, so I'm gonna hold my nose and vote for the transphobic guy who cozies up to conspiracy theorists and fascists" is essentially what you're saying if you're voting for PP.

[Azure]

As opposed to voting for someone who literally turned a blind eye to rampant corruption.

[GGG]

The value in a conservative government is that it forces the liberals to reset and move more towards the center. Hopefully we withstand the PP years and it’s a single term.

[Mr.Coffee]

I’m not so sure you can tie the federal party to the same of a provincial party. Look at the NDP provincially vs. Federally, very different. So will PP cons be like the UCP? I don’t think so. At the end of the day it’s a different population you have to cater to.

For the NDP supporters, do you guys think they are genuine in their long held stance towards oil and gas? For that reason alone they are literally unelectable IMO. It’s staunch ideology vacated from reality. Like, they literally sound like total nut bars and would absolutely 100% destroy Alberta.

[Jacks]

PepsiFree

I’m not sure that really describes the situation with the NDP in any way. This is a party that has been a really solid part of the Canadian political landscape forever, not some fringe party full of radicals.

This is a party that one of it's most senior and respected members (who would absolutely have a major cabinet post) just put forward a bill that would criminalize saying anything positive about the energy industry, even if it's true. An individual saying that natural gas burns cleaner than heating oil would be a violation of the law and be punishable by a fine of up to $500K. A company saying that could get jail time. Sounds pretty radical to me.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m not so sure you can tie the federal party to the same of a provincial party. Look at the NDP provincially vs. Federally, very different. So will PP cons be like the UCP? I don’t think so. At the end of the day it’s a different population you have to cater to.

For the NDP supporters, do you guys think they are genuine in their long held stance towards oil and gas? For that reason alone they are literally unelectable IMO. It’s staunch ideology vacated from reality. Like, they literally sound like total nut bars and would absolutely 100% destroy Alberta.

And to your point, the NDP in Manitoba is very pro energy, much to the dismay of all the lunatics that voted for them thinking they'll ban mining, oil & gas, etc.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m not so sure you can tie the federal party to the same of a provincial party. Look at the NDP provincially vs. Federally, very different. So will PP cons be like the UCP? I don’t think so. At the end of the day it’s a different population you have to cater to.

For the NDP supporters, do you guys think they are genuine in their long held stance towards oil and gas? For that reason alone they are literally unelectable IMO. It’s staunch ideology vacated from reality. Like, they literally sound like total nut bars and would absolutely 100% destroy Alberta.

You can’t exactly, in that just because provincial conservative parties act a certain way the federal one will, but the things PP is saying and doing point very much to a similar, right wing populist approach that might be good for some business, but leave the rest of us worse off.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jacks

PepsiFree


This is a party that one of it's most senior and respected members (who would absolutely have a major cabinet post) just put forward a bill that would criminalize saying anything positive about the energy industry, even if it's true. An individual saying that natural gas burns cleaner than heating oil would be a violation of the law and be punishable by a fine of up to $500K. A company saying that could get jail time. Sounds pretty radical to me.

It’s not just radical either, it’s wrong and idiotic.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m not so sure you can tie the federal party to the same of a provincial party. Look at the NDP provincially vs. Federally, very different. So will PP cons be like the UCP? I don’t think so. At the end of the day it’s a different population you have to cater to.

For the NDP supporters, do you guys think they are genuine in their long held stance towards oil and gas? For that reason alone they are literally unelectable IMO. It’s staunch ideology vacated from reality. Like, they literally sound like total nut bars and would absolutely 100% destroy Alberta.

To your first paragraph, I think you need to study the history of Smith and PP, and you will see how much of their time and education in the Conservative world have been shaped and influenced by Preston Manning and his ilk. I think it's perfectly reasonable to worry they will govern in a similar way, given PP's boisterous attitude around things he doesn't like, like the CBC, and his cozying up to the same cadre of crazies Smith did and does. Frankly, I'd have ot say you are being willfully blind to not at least seriously consider that PP isn't all that much different than Smith and how she governs.


As to your second point, ya, I would worry about that, but I'd still consider voting for them because I don't see them being in majority power to take action in that direction, and clearly in a minority position they don't have that pull, either.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I’m not so sure you can tie the federal party to the same of a provincial party. Look at the NDP provincially vs. Federally, very different. So will PP cons be like the UCP? I don’t think so. At the end of the day it’s a different population you have to cater to.

For the NDP supporters, do you guys think they are genuine in their long held stance towards oil and gas? For that reason alone they are literally unelectable IMO. It’s staunch ideology vacated from reality. Like, they literally sound like total nut bars and would absolutely 100% destroy Alberta.

I can't say for sure with the federal party, but they're almost the polar opposite of conservatives at the provincial level. Whereas the UPC, etc., campaigned more moderately and then made a hard-right turn post election, the provincial NDP parties have almost always campaigned to the left and then moderated once they get into power.

For instance, the Horgan NDP in B.C. campaigned against the Peace River dam and LNG expansion, and then immediately reversed course once they got into power, completely pissing off the green wing of the party.

I think deep down they realize that knee-capping the energy industry is political poison. The anti-energy positions also don't play well with the union/labour wing of the party.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You can’t exactly, in that just because provincial conservative parties act a certain way the federal one will, but the things PP is saying and doing point very much to a similar, right wing populist approach that might be good for some business, but leave the rest of us worse off.

Ya I kinda get that and see where you’re coming from. He’s not as bad as the Libs though, so, shrug? Least worst.

It’s always tough to know how much political parties mean when they say and campaign on things. That’s why I ask others about the federal NDP. Trudeau’s liberals say and look like they’ll do a lot of things but how much do they follow through on it? Dunno. I think that’s why when you see some of the crazy UCP things and then we get the Fuzz’s of the world saying “they showed you what they were, why did you idiots vote for this”? He’s right, but sometimes pandering to more radical groups to generate support doesn’t translate into governance / policy for those groups when in power. Maybe it does but many times it doesn’t. I just think it’s such a game, and tough to really know. I didn’t vote for UCP, but I could see people thinking they’d trend back to the middle if they won an election- like I can see that logic.

So like Singh says he hates oil and gas and their party wants to imprison people for vouching for it (lol), but like, will he? Seems extreme and insane to me.

[Azure]

Horgan is a big outlier, no? I mean the guy had morons running his political campaign, and then he becomes premier and fires all the morons and runs a super effective government.

Most of them time politicians speak a big game about everything they'll do, and then when they're in power they do and accomplish nothing.

Horgan is even tackling the housing shortage, which is apparently isn't possible in the rest of the country.

[photon]

Originally Posted by GGG

The value in a conservative government is that it forces the liberals to reset and move more towards the center. Hopefully we withstand the PP years and it’s a single term.

Or a minority conservative government. Trudeau would probably had to have resigned already for that to happen though.

[TheIronMaiden]

I am fine with the CPC getting a term. It's time for change.
It also improves the odds of the NDP winning in Alberta, which would be welcome.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

The value in a conservative government is that it forces the liberals to reset and move more towards the center. Hopefully we withstand the PP years and it’s a single term.

Yeah, the hope is that after a few years of PP’s populism, Canadian voters will welcome the return of a a sober establishment figure like Mark Carney. He’s already positioning himself as the more responsible alternative to Trudeau/Freeland’s undisciplined ways.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...ugh-on-growth/

[Fuzz]

I wish we could legitimately vote "none of the above" and if the majority vote that way, we get a caretaker government while all the parties have to flush their leaders and start over.