Alberta Politics Thread v2

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

UCP with no plan >>>>> NDP with plan.

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Seriously the problem with socialist governments is that you get blindsided by their post-election taxes and spending on top of any pre-election platforms. Witness the NDP in BC that introduced their abhorrent and dishonest speculation tax after they cobbled their coalition together with the Green Party. At least have the guts to tell people about it before they vote....

These two opinions sort of run counter to each other, don’t you think? Unless you’re just engaging in blind partisanship.

The phrase “the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t” comes to mind. The Conservative party had an incredibly damaging and short sighted recent record before they got the boot, with the only bright spot being a man who told Albertans we’d need to smarten up about our spending. He, very unfortunately, is gone.

I personally definitely need to see something from the UCP before casting a vote. As fun as the no-platform game is, if you want to build trust and buy in from Albertans as a whole, you need to show your cards and show us what we’re buying into. Give us some sort of vision.

Running on “we’re just different” is poor form, and if the NDP is an example then we’ve seen that it can get you elected but you’re suddenly left scrambling and you end up doing a pretty poor job for Albertans as a whole.

Why some voters would be happy about a platform-less UCP while complaining about the NDP not putting the Carbon Tax in their platform before a vote is kind of insane.

Let’s smarten up and expect more from the parties asking us to trust them. NDP, UCP, Liberals, AP, whatever. Show your cards and sell us on an actual plan, not some short sighted and idiotic desire to show up another party. Try giving a damn about what happens after the election.

[CaptainCrunch]

Honestly, do any political parties release a platform before an election. Sitting here and grousing that the oppositions don't have a hard platform 6 months before an election is consistant with saying


"It must be Monday"


Where it gets crazy is if a party goes through an election without a platform.


Even worse when a party runs on a platform and ommits key planks until after an election.


Here's what I think should happen.


If you run on a platform and then you win and go surprise we're doing this we execute your party president using a steam roller.

[Slava]

To me the vote comes down to whether you want a party with an economic plan that will be questionable in terms of social policies (or maybe regressive); or a party with progressive social policies and questionable (or regressive) economic policies.

For me that is a really hard decision. Of course I want to vote with my wallet, but some of the other issues are important to me as well. My guess is the UCP wins handily, NDP is official opposition and between the Liberals, Alberta Party and Freedom Conservative Party or whatever Fildebrandt named it they win a seat or two each.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Slava

To me the vote comes down to whether you want a party with an economic plan that will be questionable in terms of social policies (or maybe regressive); or a party with progressive social policies and questionable (or regressive) economic policies.

For me that is a really hard decision. Of course I want to vote with my wallet, but some of the other issues are important to me as well. My guess is the UCP wins handily, NDP is official opposition and between the Liberals, Alberta Party and Freedom Conservative Party or whatever Fildebrandt named it they win a seat or two each.

I'm sort of in the same boat. I tend to prioritize economic stability because without it we cant afford the rest. That should be the bedrock and then after that we can determine how to spend our money.

[Muta]

I want to know what the UCP will do to achieve economic stability. This is still, in essence, the same entitled party that built their 'sky palace' and told citizens to 'look in the mirror' when times were tough, taking no blame for their own spending.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Muta

I want to know what the UCP will do to achieve economic stability. This is still, in essence, the same entitled party that built their 'sky palace' and told citizens to 'look in the mirror' when times were tough, taking no blame for their own spending.

I think that while the "look in the mirror" was ill-advised politically it was true. And frankly, while the sky palace debacle was a mess, Redford was talking about the oil price differential years ago and she was drowned out by people worried about her spending $45k to travel to a funeral. "We" threw the baby out with the bath-water, and now that the PC's have had their timeout, maybe we can still put things back together.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I agree that in this election particularly the UCP have a strong base regardless of their policies and platforms. Indeed, strong well articulated policies are not a large aspect of gaining political currency anymore, media slander seems to be more important. Maybe I am a fool for caring about party promises, most of which wont get delivered anyways.

In short, I would prefer to vote for a party with no chance of winning over a party that has no platform or plan.

Would you vote for a party with no plan?

I wouldn't. I voted for Jim Prentice because he actually had a true plan compared to the NDP. The NDP did have a plan but it was more "review everything the PC's did" - which they ended up doing and it turns out it was all a giant waste of time.

In the coming election it seems like the roles are going to be reversed. So my vote will follow the leader that can actually articulate policy.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that while the "look in the mirror" was ill-advised politically it was true. And frankly, while the sky palace debacle was a mess, Redford was talking about the oil price differential years ago and she was drowned out by people worried about her spending $45k to travel to a funeral. "We" threw the baby out with the bath-water, and now that the PC's have had their timeout, maybe we can still put things back together.

A good start would be to just eliminate any questions about rights for different groups of people right off the bat, going ahead with full support, equal treatment and respecting dignity of everyone from LGBTQ to religious folks to aliens. This shouldn't even be debatable and frankly we are at the point in society where anything less just looks silly, antiquated and hypocritical. Governments should trust people to make the right decisions for themselves, including around abortion, cannabis use, and anything else. Trying to meticulously manage these is overreach, no matter which party does it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I wouldn't. I voted for Jim Prentice because he actually had a true plan compared to the NDP. The NDP did have a plan but it was more "review everything the PC's did" - which they ended up doing and it turns out it was all a giant waste of time.

In the coming election it seems like the roles are going to be reversed. So my vote will follow the leader that can actually articulate policy.

Ah yes...the infamous 'Albertans should get their fair share!' Royalty 'Review' where they left everything as is because its about as sweet as it can possibly get.

[Red Slinger]

Even after they won the election I always just assumed that the NDP would be one and done. They were a protest vote in the most politically conservative province in the country. There's no way Albertans will vote for them again regardless of UCPs plan or lack of plan.

It's nice that some people are interested in what they stand for and how they want to govern but I would guess the majority of Albertans would blindly vote for the conservative option 99 times out of 100. This thread is a good example of typical Alberta partisanship. The PCs ran an incompetent government since the early 2000's and didn't get held accountable until 2015. Every election is there's to lose so I'm sure they will do enough not to lose it.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Muta

I want to know what the UCP will do to achieve economic stability. This is still, in essence, the same entitled party that built their 'sky palace' and told citizens to 'look in the mirror' when times were tough, taking no blame for their own spending.

Same party? I thought all the founding members of the PC's joined the Alberta party due to their dissatisfaction with Kenney being elected the leader of the UCP.

The main job of the new group, said O'Neill, will be to bring together "centrist political voices in time for the next provincial election in 2019."

As PC president, O'Neill was frequently at odds with the Kenney campaign and was called on to stickhandle controversial issues emerging from the divisive leadership race.

O'Neill said she wanted a break from politics after the PC leadership vote in Calgary, but her phone wouldn't stop ringing with calls from Conservatives who didn't want to stay in the party under Kenney.

While there's no formal political affiliation with any party, O'Neill says the organization is "leaning probably more to the Alberta Party," which she said has been working closely with the group.

"It's a natural coming together," said Alberta Party Leader Greg Clark.

"I've sat down with Stephen Mandel, I've sat down with Katherine O'Neill, and our values align," Clark said.

Since the PC leadership vote, the Alberta Party has seen a surge of new members, he said. Many of them are former PC members, and some once supported the Wildrose party, he said.

"The people who are coming on board may not be household names, but they're willing to do the work," said Clark.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ntre-1.4165374

[Muta]

Huh? The UCP is a result of Wildrose Party merger with the Conservative Party, which was in power for decades. The UCP party is more in line with the Progressive Conservative party than the Alberta Party is; that's where their origins are. There's many former PC members in the UCP...

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Even after they won the election I always just assumed that the NDP would be one and done. They were a protest vote in the most politically conservative province in the country. There's no way Albertans will vote for them again regardless of UCPs plan or lack of plan.

It's nice that some people are interested in what they stand for and how they want to govern but I would guess the majority of Albertans would blindly vote for the conservative option 99 times out of 100. This thread is a good example of typical Alberta partisanship. The PCs ran an incompetent government since the early 2000's and didn't get held accountable until 2015. Every election is there's to lose so I'm sure they will do enough not to lose it.

I am always curious why the NDP are written off because it was a protest vote. Albertans had a chance to protest and maintain a conservative government, but mid-election they pivoted left instead. They didn't blindly vote for the conservative option.

The poll before the election was called had the Wildrose at 31%, the PCs at 27%, NDP at 26% and the Liberals at 12%.

The election results had the Wildrose drop 7%, the PCs stayed even, the Liberals drop 8% and the NDP gained 14%.

All of the NDP gains were at the expense of the other "protest votes", not at the party being protested. The Liberals I understand, but wouldn't a vote for the Wildrose be as much a protest as a vote for the NDP, especially since they were leading? Was Brian Jean so terrible that people would rather vote for the socialists than him?

Maybe it was strategic voting, the Wildrose had 24% of the vote and 24% of the seats. NDP had 41% and 62% and the PCs ended with 28% of the vote but only 11% of the seats.

I fully expect the UCP to win, but just the idea that the NDP pulled that much support from the Wildrose I think demonstrates that there is a strong left leaning streak in Alberta that shouldn't be written off as simply a protest, and regardless of current support the game can change quickly once the writ is dropped.

[V]

Yeah, I think a lot of that will be answered at the election. My gut tells me the NDP will get slaughtered, but we’ll see.

[Jacks]

Not sure what Kenney thinks he is accomplishing?
Pretty dumb IMO.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/pol...stioned-by-ndp

[Ozy_Flame]

I really hope Kenney didn't call himself a "Minister", with India's Infrastructure Minister referring to him one in his tweet. That dude appears pretty high up in the Indian Government.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I wouldn't. I voted for Jim Prentice because he actually had a true plan compared to the NDP.

But Prentice's plan involved both cutting spending and increasing taxes, so he got it in the neck from both sides.

[shogged]

I think it’s really poor taste for the leader of the opposition to take an overseas trip and represent the province. Not sure what he hopes to accomplish over there anyways?

“We had a great meeting today, I’ll take everything we discussed back with me to Alberta and... do nothing with it because I’m not in power?”

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I am always curious why the NDP are written off because it was a protest vote. Albertans had a chance to protest and maintain a conservative government, but mid-election they pivoted left instead. They didn't blindly vote for the conservative option.

The poll before the election was called had the Wildrose at 31%, the PCs at 27%, NDP at 26% and the Liberals at 12%.

The election results had the Wildrose drop 7%, the PCs stayed even, the Liberals drop 8% and the NDP gained 14%.

All of the NDP gains were at the expense of the other "protest votes", not at the party being protested. The Liberals I understand, but wouldn't a vote for the Wildrose be as much a protest as a vote for the NDP, especially since they were leading? Was Brian Jean so terrible that people would rather vote for the socialists than him?

Maybe it was strategic voting, the Wildrose had 24% of the vote and 24% of the seats. NDP had 41% and 62% and the PCs ended with 28% of the vote but only 11% of the seats.

I fully expect the UCP to win, but just the idea that the NDP pulled that much support from the Wildrose I think demonstrates that there is a strong left leaning streak in Alberta that shouldn't be written off as simply a protest, and regardless of current support the game can change quickly once the writ is dropped.

Good post.

Let's not kid ourselves. Calgary and most of rural Alberta will vote UCP. Edmonton is still going to have a lot of NDP seats in the next election.

[Howie_16]

Originally Posted by guzzy

Good post.

Let's not kid ourselves. Calgary and most of rural Alberta will vote UCP. Edmonton is still going to have a lot of NDP seats in the next election.

Yes, the rural rubes will definitely vote for the WRP 2.0 UCP in droves, but it will be much closer in Calgary than people expect. This is the same city that re-elected Nenshi when Bill Smith failed to get into specifics, chose to market himself as "Not-Nenshi" instead and lost even though the polls said he had a huge lead.