2020/21 International Club Football Thread

[GirlySports]

I blame the Soviet Union for breaking up.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

But this is again where you have to eliminate your thoughts as an individual and anticipate the thoughts of the collective. Fans, and not just in football but in all sports, have shown time and again they will eat #### from teams and leagues and keep on watching. I'm just saying I remain totally skeptical fans will shun the Super League and prop up the domestic leagues. I know people keep wanting to believe sports can stay more sports than entertainment, but I really feel that ship has sailed. But we'll see I guess.

You are correct.

I guess it was just nice to think that sport was still sport in Europe, but that is coming to a close. The NHL is the equivalent of a Super League in that they tell the IIHF to shove it and they play, literally, by their own rules and maximize profits.

This new Super League a group of gazillionaires who are telling FIFA/UEFA to shove it and aim to maximize profits. Who knows, maybe we see a more dynamic offside rule that increases scoring and we get some 8-7 barn burners between Barca and Real.

[The Big Chill]

There is definitely a lot of anger from fans in all of this. It will be interesting to see what fans actually do now.

Anybody here going to quit watching if this happens?

[Senator Clay Davis]

The thing is all choices here suck. The CL changes and another European competition show you that UEFA isn't doing anything but trying to suck that tit dry too. FIFA wants to increase the number of clubs in the CWC to make it a bigger/richer event. I don't honestly know what fans can do besides stop watching, but that's the part that teams and leagues exploit. It's tough to just walk away as a fan, to put in years of support and then just say "#### it". You still love the sport, you still want to watch, but to just start cheering for someone else....how? You started cheering for someone for a reason, tough to just say "Well bye Liverpool, time to cheer for....????".

[devo22]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Anybody here going to quit watching if this happens?

it's a tough one when "your" club is a part of this. I have supported United religiously for around 25 years, it's hard to just walk away from that. But I do feel this is a fork in the road moment for me. I certainly will never quit watching football, but if the ESL becomes a reality, I think I'll primarily watch other stuff. VfB Stuttgart has always kind of been my second love, so I'll just dive more into that I guess.

[GirlySports]

I haven't really watched much since soccer was taken to Dazn and then covid hit.

I'm definitely not paying a subscription to watch a super league.

[The Big Chill]

This is an odd one. I couldn’t just walk away either, but it certainly damages my opinion of the club.

At this point, even if they don’t go through with it, a lot of damage has already been done. It is similar to the start of COVID when Liverpool and a few others only helped their employees financially after the club was publicly shamed. It’s just fairly clear that these clubs are being run as money making machines with no real loyalty to the fans.

[GirlySports]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1384214516091678731

[Thunderball]

I was reading that the Italian clubs intend to stay in Serie A, and this is a more a middle finger to UEFA and continental competition, then an attempt to leave the domestic competitions.

My understanding is part of the issue is the lack of compensation from UEFA for national team tournaments and continental competitions relative to the player salaries and costs to compete.

As long as the teams stay in their domestic leagues, I'm fine with this... but I'm on the fence right now.

[Matty81]

I dont think this is gonna fly. Nevermind the fan outrage, the uk government came out this morning and basically said they would even go so far as to legislate to ensure this doesn't happen. Interestingly they are starting up a commission to study it and make recommendations and one of the options they are looking at is the Bundesliga fan/community ownership model which would be great imo.

Special place in hell for the greedy ____s trying to americanize European football.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

There is definitely a lot of anger from fans in all of this. It will be interesting to see what fans actually do now.

Anybody here going to quit watching if this happens?

So firstly, you have to tell yourself that it's not the players, or the coaches or even the club itself as an institution that deserves your ire. It's purely on the greedy billionaire owners.

So if this went through, I wouldn't want to give those bastards any of my money so I probably just wouldn't pay for whatever streaming service it's on. Whether I could ditch Liverpool completely, I don't know. Last year's win was such an emotional high for me, and then this season I've barely really cared about football. Part of it is no fans being there, a big part of it is VAR and its implementation sucking the life out of things, and probably part of it is just the general malaise I'm feeling in my own life lately.

I made the laughably powerless move last night of unsubscribing from LFC's YouTube account (in the hope that maybe a large amount of others would too and that might attract the notice of somebody), but that's about all I can do. If I was to move on from them completely, I couldn't go to another team. I've been a fan since a little nipper in the mid 80s. I'd probably just be a neutral if I even bothered watching anymore.

[Matty81]

I'd keep watching domestic leagues... and cancel subscription to any sports broadcaster who pays money to this esl. I don't care if the best players are in every game I watch. I like mls, hell I like the Canadian league. Id be happy watching palace vs Leicester or whatever phoenix clubs replace the big six if they get banned. I think they are way overestimating how many people will abandon them.

I ####ing hate the NFL, nhl and nba and how they reward failure and give everybody a chance to win regardless of how badly managed or supported they are. Success should be earned not given. Watching mcdavid in edmonton makes me sick. I like dynasties built on huge fan bases and good management, and I even enjoy hating on big evil dominant clubs like the Yankees and man u.

The idea of meritocracy is what makes soccer more appealing than closed shop leagues that are just profit generation engines.

[agulati]

I get the meritocracy, but is soccer truely a meritocracy even right now? The top teams already squeeze talent from the mid tier/lower tier teams consistently.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Plus don't those teams that consistently get into the Champions league make a ton of extra money from that, out earning way more than the other teams in there domestic leagues, and it's just a continuous cycle, which is why Bayern Munich and PSG etc just consistently run the table on their domestic leagues?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by agulati

I consider myself to be an average soccer fan. Don’t follow it religiously, but do tune in for a decent chunk of Arsenal games. In a situation like this I’ll watch every game, since the competition will be strong.

I honestly get the anger and vitriol being thrown against the teams. I have bigger problems with poaching than this. Even if the teams are in the same league, they are not at a level playing field. If a mid tier team has a Cinderella run, there is a good chance they lose their top players the next transfer window. That has always been the nature of the sport. In this way, atleast most games are competitive. (being an Arsenal fan, I do understand that we make it “competitive” against teams of all levels unfortunately)

This is really interesting, because this is what this elite cartel of clubs in banking on. I'm an Arsenal fan and I hate the proposal, but they know there are international and somewhat casual fans who don't care about the history of the domestic game, the idea of qualifying, promotion/relegation and how its woven into the fabric of the sport there.

I'm not bashing you because you are obviously free to consume the sport however you see fit, but the most ardent fans are sickened by this and for good reason. They don't want to just see the best teams week in week out without earning it. And with Arsenal, they most certainly haven't earned anything of the sort for many years. It feels cheap.

But your viewpoint is very eye opening and I think its the very reason these teams are moving forward with it. They know for every North Londener they anger, there is someone in Canada, the US, China, India or wherever else they can sell the brand to. The casual and international fan doesn't care about the mid week premier league game vs Brighton, its irrelevant to that broader audience. They will just say bring on teams like Barca and Real Madrid every week, and the money will still flow.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Matty81

I'd keep watching domestic leagues... and cancel subscription to any sports broadcaster who pays money to this esl. I don't care if the best players are in every game I watch. I like mls, hell I like the Canadian league. Id be happy watching palace vs Leicester or whatever phoenix clubs replace the big six if they get banned. I think they are way overestimating how many people will abandon them.

I ####ing hate the NFL, nhl and nba and how they reward failure and give everybody a chance to win regardless of how badly managed or supported they are. Success should be earned not given. Watching mcdavid in edmonton makes me sick. I like dynasties built on huge fan bases and good management, and I even enjoy hating on big evil dominant clubs like the Yankees and man u.

The idea of meritocracy is what makes soccer more appealing than closed shop leagues that are just profit generation engines.

Meritocracy? How is it meritocracy when the richest teams buy all the best players then get more TV and merchandise money to keep buying all the best players? How is the premiership meritocratic when only a handful of teams can hope to win? How is it good for fans of teams not owned by mega-billionaires that all of their best players get scooped by the giants?

If the NHL was run like European football, Giordano, Monahan, and Guadreau would have left years ago, and Tkachuk would be signing with another club over the summer. We had a taste of that before the cap, and it ####ing sucked.

You know what’s good for fans? Parity.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Plus don't those teams that consistently get into the Champions league make a ton of extra money from that, out earning way more than the other teams in there domestic leagues, and it's just a continuous cycle, which is why Bayern Munich and PSG etc just consistently run the table on their domestic leagues?

They don't always run the table. Lyon won 7 consecutive French titles. We had a Monaco-Porto final once.

The main difference with the Champions League is that no matter how top heavy it is, it's still an open tournament. One year Man U might be not be in it. One year Arsenal might not be in it. One year Leicester or Atalanta are in it. Sure it's still money driven but a billionaire might take a chance on an outsider. PSG is a fairly new team. They debuted in the Champions League in 95 and now they are a juggernaut. Same with Man City. If the Super League had been created in 92 instead of the revamped Champions League, why would a billionaire invest in PSG or Man City for essentially a rotational league spot?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by agulati

I get the meritocracy, but is soccer truely a meritocracy even right now? The top teams already squeeze talent from the mid tier/lower tier teams consistently.

If my math is correct, the English Title has been awarded 121 times. Three teams won 43% of the titles.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by agulati

I consider myself to be an average soccer fan. Don’t follow it religiously, but do tune in for a decent chunk of Arsenal games. In a situation like this I’ll watch every game, since the competition will be strong.

I honestly get the anger and vitriol being thrown against the teams. I have bigger problems with poaching than this. Even if the teams are in the same league, they are not at a level playing field. If a mid tier team has a Cinderella run, there is a good chance they lose their top players the next transfer window. That has always been the nature of the sport. In this way, atleast most games are competitive. (being an Arsenal fan, I do understand that we make it “competitive” against teams of all levels unfortunately)

Except the competition will be too strong.
If you think this Flames season has been hard, just wait for Arsenal vs Super League opponents.
I sense a 9-1 smashing from Real Madrid coming up

[Senator Clay Davis]