BC Lags Behind Other Provinces in Life Satisfaction

[CliffFletcher]

No other countries are sending public health experts to San Fransisco, Seattle, or Vancouver to study and copy their addiction and homelessness policies. They’re cautionary tales of what a failed response looks like.

European cities have decriminalized drug possession and operate safe use sites. But they also break up any public drug gatherings outside those sites immediately, disperse or relocate addicts who try to camp, and give users who break laws and engage in anti-social behaviours a choice - mandatory treatment or the justice system. So they do treat it as a public health issue. But they very much do not take the laissez-faire hands-off approach of the West Coast. If you’re an addict using drugs publicly in Europe, the state is going to be up in your business.

And it isn’t just yuppies and small-city tourists who are appalled by street crime and lawlessness in San Fransisco. The mayor herself said:

“It’s time the reign of criminals who are destroying our city, it is time for it to come to an end. And it comes to an end when we take the steps to more aggressive with law enforcement. More aggressive with the changes in our policies and less tolerant of all the bull—- that has destroyed our city.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...has-destroyed/

She also had this to say:

A Safer San Francisco

All San Franciscans deserve to feel safe in their city. No matter where they live — Noe Valley, the Bayview, out on the Avenues, or in the heart of the Tenderloin. And the truth is, right now, people aren’t feeling safe — not safe enough anyway — all over the city.

We need to change course on how we handle public safety in San Francisco. I’m proud that this city believes in giving people second chances. Nevertheless, we also need there to be accountability when someone does break the law. We can’t be a place where anything goes on the street. San Francisco is a compassionate city, but our compassion cannot be mistaken for weakness or indifference.

I was raised by my grandmother to believe in “tough love” — in keeping your house in order — and I believe we need a little of that, now more than ever. And so, today, I am announcing a series of new steps to address public safety in San Francisco…

https://londonbreed.medium.com/a-saf...o-eb40d9d502e4

[Matata]

I spent a few days this summer in the nicest part of Vancouver's downtown and my biggest takeaway was just how casually degenerative Behavior was accepted: doing fentanyl on a bus while sitting next to a toddler? No problem; want to blow your joint smoke directly at of baby? Vancouver is your town; passed out junkies at the children's playground? Just walk around them.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And it isn’t just yuppies and small-city tourists who are appalled by street crime and lawlessness in San Fransisco. The mayor herself said:

London Breed is also bad at her job and is almost universally unliked by residents. She did fine during the pandemic but is otherwise just combative and toothless. Talks a lot and accomplishes little. Has also faced criticism for being in the pocket of those yuppies she apparently ain’t.

And again, to be clear, the point was not that SF does not have issues (it does, specifically in areas like the Tenderloin and it’s no coincidence Breed names it, Bayview, and the other non-tourist areas specifically) it’s that these issues are overblown by the casual observer because they almost certainly never actually observe them outside of driving by a homeless camp or seeing a random homeless person having a mental health crisis outside the Apple store in Union Square.

“Appalled by street crime! Lawlessness in San Francisco!” You both provide an example of what I’m talking about and prove my point here. It isn’t that there aren’t issues. Have you, personally, spent time in Noe Valley or Bay View? Have you walked through the Tenderloin just after sunset? Probably not, right? Most people don’t. Locals who can avoid it know better and tourists either have no reason to or are told not to. But the problems are in these concentrated areas and they heavily affect the actual residents of these areas.

There are bad areas, and they can absolutely suck, but the vast majority of people in SF, especially if you have wealth or you’re sticking to business, tourism, or otherwise affluent areas, will never experience the “lawlessness” of SF. And they are absolutely overblowing the day to day experience of being there for the vast majority. It’s the same as Oakland having a reputation for being dangerous. You can live your entire life as a middle income individual there without becoming a victim or experiencing crime of any kind, but we’re supposed to believe that wealthy people and tourists visit only to have these eye-opening, shocking experiences of a lawless wasteland? Yeah, right.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Matata

I spent a few days this summer in the nicest part of Vancouver's downtown and my biggest takeaway was just how casually degenerative Behavior was accepted: doing fentanyl on a bus while sitting next to a toddler? No problem; want to blow your joint smoke directly at of baby? Vancouver is your town; passed out junkies at the children's playground? Just walk around them.

My last time at the barber there was a talkative bus driver there getting a cut too. He said stuff like people shooting drugs or having sex on the bus is so common that it doesn't even affect him anymore, and passengers may think drivers are calous in being unmoved by passenger complaints but the reality is this stuff is so common that they're just not phased by it. He also said that he's in no position to really do anything about it and if the police aren't even going to stop someone from shooting drugs in public he's certainly not going to put himself at risk when he's just a guy whose job is just to drive the bus. That's a sentiment likely felt by many more than just bus drivers.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Matata

I spent a few days this summer in the nicest part of Vancouver's downtown and my biggest takeaway was just how casually degenerative Behavior was accepted: doing fentanyl on a bus while sitting next to a toddler? No problem; want to blow your joint smoke directly at of baby? Vancouver is your town; passed out junkies at the children's playground? Just walk around them.

The average person just gets used to seeing it and nothing ever being done about it.
I've been in Vancouver 15 years now and things just get worse & worse.
People are frustrated, police are frustrated, health care workers are frustrated but nothing changes so you just try to avoid it.
These degenerative behaviors are accepted, even encouraged by our politicians so what is the average citizen to do about it.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

There are bad areas, and they can absolutely suck, but the vast majority of people in SF, especially if you have wealth or you’re sticking to business, tourism, or otherwise affluent areas, will never experience the “lawlessness” of SF. And they are absolutely overblowing the day to day experience of being there for the vast majority. It’s the same as Oakland having a reputation for being dangerous. You can live your entire life as a middle income individual there without becoming a victim or experiencing crime of any kind,but we’re supposed to believe that wealthy people and tourists visit only to have these eye-opening, shocking experiences of a lawless wasteland? Yeah, right.

You’re flat-out gaslighting now.

Opinions and feverish debates about public safety have shaped the most momentous political decisions in San Francisco in the past year, from Mayor London Breed declaring a state of emergency in the Tenderloin to the historic recall of a district attorney.

But in a city where leaders are constantly groping for solutions, some residents still feel afraid to walk home alone or lock their bikes downtown. A sweeping poll commissioned by The Chronicle drew sobering results: Nearly half of respondents said they were victims of theft in the past five years, while roughly a quarter were physically attacked or threatened.The majority had negative impressions of law enforcement…

It comes at a tense moment, when videos of unchecked shoplifting or unprovoked street violence are ricocheting on social media, and confidence in police and other city leaders is dwindling.

Forty-five percent of people surveyed for the poll said an item was stolen from them within the past five years. Proportionally, Black and mixed-race respondents felt a more severe impact than other groups, with a majority — 54% of Black respondents and 55% of mixed-race respondents — reporting they had suffered theft. Property crime rates were lower for white residents, 43% of whom lost a possession to theft within the time period.

“I think that’s extraordinarily high,” former San Francisco Supervisor Michael Yaki, now a political analyst, said of the numbers. While personal property theft may not elicit the same degree of terror as a violent attack, it still affects people’s feelings of security, he said.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/artic...d-17439346.php

80 per cent feel crime is getting worse and 70 per cent feel the quality of life is getting worse.

New polling released by the San Francisco Chamber of Commerce shows that eight out of ten of San Franciscans consider crime to have worsened in recent years. The results were consistent across gender, age, ethnicity, party affiliation, and neighborhood, and homeownership status.

For the second year in a row, 70% of residents feel that the quality of life in San Francisco has declined. Considered in light of the pandemic, these views are somewhat unsurprising. However, what stands out in the polling results is the strikingly high and consistent number of respondents who now view homeless and crime as the leading problems facing the City…

https://sfchamber.com/new-polling-sh...g-police-work/

Crime and safety are very big concern to San Fransiscans.

[JohnnyB]

Even if people can live their whole lives in middle income communities without being a victim, the fact that not everything is bad does not imply that things are okay.

[blankall]

As a resident of Vancouver, I have had my car broken into. Just about everyone I know would have had their car or house broken into. Anything you leave unattended like a bike or phone will get stolen. I know people who've had items (like phones and wallets) stolen from jackets hanging off their chairs at restaurants. There's also a huge amount of vandalism right now. Windows are constantly being smashed.

I would agree that the rate of violent crime is relatively low. Muggings and actual physical assaults remain relatively rare.

Quite frankly, the bigger issue is the amount of deaths that are occurring. BC reported 4200 Covid deaths and they shut down the whole province. We've had more overdose death during that period, and no one seems to want to make any changes.

The stats are pretty alarming and only getting worse:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/bi...licit-drug.pdf

This is the kind of thing that affects everyone. Almost all of these people have families.

I really disagree with the notion that the West Coast is this great place to live, and the drug/homelessness pandemic only affects a small proportion of people.

[Matata]

The opiod/fentanyl epidemic is acceptable because it massively enriches the pharmaceutical industry. The covid response was acceptable because it massively enriched the pharmaceutical industry. Just need to figure out a way to cure homelessness that massively enriches the pharmaceutical industry and everything should come together nicely.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Matata

The opiod/fentanyl epidemic is acceptable because it massively enriches the pharmaceutical industry. The covid response was acceptable because it massively enriched the pharmaceutical industry. Just need to figure out a way to cure homelessness that massively enriches the pharmaceutical industry and everything should come together nicely.

Did you come up with that stupidity yourself, or did someone else convince you to ignore the fact that hospitals were overwhelmed and on the brink of collapse?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Even if people can live their whole lives in middle income communities without being a victim, the fact that not everything is bad does not imply that things are okay.

And in the same way, just because there are areas where things are bad, does not imply the city as a whole and everywhere you go is bad or that crime is unavoidable, which is the point I think I'm being clear enough making.

People who actually live in Bay View know the problems SF is facing because they actually experience those problems. Millionaires and tourists don't. I take issue with the sensationalized stories from people who stick to busy, affluent, upscale areas and still have the nerve to call the city a hell hole.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You’re flat-out gaslighting now.

80 per cent feel crime is getting worse and 70 per cent feel the quality of life is getting worse.

Crime and safety are very big concern to San Fransiscans.

Are you actually going to pull a random article you just read with statistics that say nothing about whether someone "can" live a life unaffected by crime (which is what I said), and then have the nerve to not only say that the lived experience of myself and my family is wrong, but that sharing that experience is actually gaslighting? Do you see the irony in that? You're a piece of work. 30 million+ people live or come through that city every year. There have been 36k crimes so far this year and 24k of those were thefts. Do the math.

What do you know about it, honestly, outside of what you've read? You seem like the same type of person I'm talking about. You don't know the problem areas, or the reasons, or the good parts. You just sit 1500 miles way and pretend. Your opinion matters less than a tourist.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Did you come up with that stupidity yourself, or did someone else convince you to ignore the fact that hospitals were overwhelmed and on the brink of collapse?

Not to mention that the opioid crisis is not acceptable and the Sackler family - considered to be largely responsible for pushing opioids in the first place - have been shamed and erased from any form of positive public light.

[Macman]

But aren’t illegal drugs mostly responsible for all the deaths? How do these drug dealers live with themselves knowing the destruction they’re causing. And it’s the big guys on top they need to go after harder.

There was a guy hanging around my place yesterday, didn’t look to out of sort but a bit off and a while later EMS was there and he must have fallen down and someone called it in. But this is everyday this happens all over the city.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by you&me

Not to mention that the opioid crisis is not acceptable and the Sackler family - considered to be largely responsible for pushing opioids in the first place - have been shamed and erased from any form of positive public light.

It is true that, at some point, the pharmaceutical industry was making money hand over fist by keeping people hooked on opioids. That's clearly changed now.

Opioids are very hard to get from a doctor. The fentanyl being conusumed on the streets is largely imported from grey market labs in China. It's not very difficult at all to find a "dark net" Chinese lab selling fentanyl. It's extremely potent and a small package can contain a huge supply. The dealers order dozens of packets from China and a few slip through customs.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Macman

But aren’t illegal drugs mostly responsible for all the deaths? How do these drug dealers live with themselves knowing the destruction they’re causing. And it’s the big guys on top they need to go after harder.

There was a guy hanging around my place yesterday, didn’t look to out of sort but a bit off and a while later EMS was there and he must have fallen down and someone called it in. But this is everyday this happens all over the city.

Many of the drug dealers are addicts themselves.

However, you're right that many others are simply profiteering. I don't know how anyone could deal fentanyl and look at themselves in the mirror afterwards.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Macman

But aren’t illegal drugs mostly responsible for all the deaths? How do these drug dealers live with themselves knowing the destruction they’re causing. And it’s the big guys on top they need to go after harder.

There was a guy hanging around my place yesterday, didn’t look to out of sort but a bit off and a while later EMS was there and he must have fallen down and someone called it in. But this is everyday this happens all over the city.

Do you really think most criminals care about who they harm?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Do you really think most criminals care about who they harm?

I mean the corporations who created the oxy crisis don't even give a ####. Why would common criminals?

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by rubecube

i mean the corporations who created the oxy crisis don't even give a ####. Why would common criminals?

100%

[blankall]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I mean the corporations who created the oxy crisis don't even give a ####. Why would common criminals?

To be fair, opioids remain an irreplaceable component of modern medicine. They save the lives of and provide comfort to millions of people in North America.

There were definitely some pharmaceutical companies who sought to expand their use beyond their intended use for the purpose of profit.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And in the same way, just because there are areas where things are bad, does not imply the city as a whole and everywhere you go is bad or that crime is unavoidable, which is the point I think I'm being clear enough making.

Yeah, SF has lots of good to it too. I'm not debating that all. The point I'm making is more that there is serious a problem. Vancouver has good sides to it too. Vancouver also has a serious problem. The problem is not the consequence of the size of the city, but of culture, policy and/or other contextual circumstances. It doesn't make everywhere in the city bad, but the fact that such a serious problem exists in the midst of so much surrounding abundance is especially tragic.