The Democratic Presidential Nomination 2020

[Bootsy]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I just find the argument that "Liberals are mean to magas", stupid.

It's not that they are mean to magas , it's that in a lot of cases they have become more unlikable than magas in the eyes of more than just conservative people.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Bootsy

It's not that they are mean to magas , it's that in a lot of cases they have become more unlikable than magas in the eyes of more than just conservative people.

Honest question: when birthers and tea party types took over the Republican Party and were being the biggest buttholes alive to liberals for damn near a decade there was nary a word about them needing to be nicer to the left or pander to moderates so they weren’t so unlikeable. Is this because the right is expected to be raging hate boners all the time so it’s allowed? It’s an interesting double standard.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

So... who do you like?

Probably Biden.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Bootsy

It's not that they are mean to magas , it's that in a lot of cases they have become more unlikable than magas in the eyes of more than just conservative people.

oye, they can vote for Trump then if he meets their standards of civility and likeablity.

[Bootsy]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

oye, they can vote for Trump then if he meets their standards of civility and likeablity.

He doesn't have to meet their standards of civility and likability, he just has to not be as unlikable as his opponent.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Bootsy

He doesn't have to meet their standards of civility and likability, he just has to not be as unlikable as his opponent.

lol.

[PostandIn]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Honest question: when birthers and tea party types took over the Republican Party and were being the biggest buttholes alive to liberals for damn near a decade there was nary a word about them needing to be nicer to the left or pander to moderates so they weren’t so unlikeable. Is this because the right is expected to be raging hate boners all the time so it’s allowed? It’s an infuriating double standard.

Does the left have an equivalent pejorative for 'libtard'? If there is one, I haven't heard it. Rightists behave like Islamist's when criticized and everyone seems to think it's OK. It's been completely normalized. Where are the deep thinkers and woke commentariat when it comes to the tone and language used by the right versus the left? Yes, many on the left are condescending and smug yet no one seems to care that the right routinely refer to anyone that doesn't share their world view as 'dangerous', 'radical', 'anti-American' and on it goes.

You know what's radical? Proposing to strip health care coverage from 25 million people without a back-up plan. Not as a matter of thoughtful, well-researched policy (I mean, they only had 8 years to come up with a cogent alternative plan) but as a matter of ideology.

You know what else is radical? Creating a budget bill that disproportionally benefits the already wealthy and profitable corporations in complete secrecy (including rank and file Republicans), sidestepping the entire committee review process, then giving congress, like, 2 hours review time before forcing a vote.

But this is today's GOP so it's OK, I guess.

[CliffFletcher]

Too funny. It really is impossible for some people to talk about the Democrats without frothing about how much worse the Republicans are.

Raging at Republicans isn't a platform. Whipping up people who already hate Trump to really really REALLY hate Trump will do nothing to help the Dems win the election. It's catharsis. Or theatre. But it isn't politics.

And stomping your feet and saying "but Republicans did it first!!!" isn't an argument, it's a tantrum.

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I just find the argument that "Liberals are mean to magas", stupid.

Only 41 per cent of Hispanic Democrats, 37 per cent of Democrats without college, and 28 per cent of black Democrats consider themselves liberals. That's an issue that Democrat leaders have to consider, regardless of what Trump supporters feel.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...views-liberal/

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Too funny. It really is impossible for some people to talk about the Democrats without frothing about how much worse the Republicans are.

Raging at Republicans isn't a platform. Whipping up people who already hate Trump to really really REALLY hate Trump will do nothing to help the Dems win the election. It's catharsis. Or theatre. But it isn't politics.

And stomping your feet and saying "but Republicans did it first!!!" isn't an argument, it's a tantrum.



Only 41 per cent of Hispanic Democrats, 37 per cent of Democrats without college, and 28 per cent of black Democrats consider themselves liberals. That's an issue that Democrat leaders have to consider, regardless of what Trump supporters feel.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...views-liberal/

Did the guy who basically begins every political post with a rant about the regressive left or liberal elites just accuse everyone else of being obsessive?

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Too funny. It really is impossible for some people to talk about the Democrats without frothing about how much worse the Republicans are.

Raging at Republicans isn't a platform. Whipping up people who already hate Trump to really really REALLY hate Trump will do nothing to help the Dems win the election. It's catharsis. Or theatre. But it isn't politics.

And stomping your feet and saying "but Republicans did it first!!!" isn't an argument, it's a tantrum.



Only 41 per cent of Hispanic Democrats, 37 per cent of Democrats without college, and 28 per cent of black Democrats consider themselves liberals. That's an issue that Democrat leaders have to consider, regardless of what Trump supporters feel.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...views-liberal/

The same research shows that all of those groups - every single one - are becoming more liberal. So rather than a problem or blight on Democrats, it would seem to be a healthy... liberal... progression.

[GirlySports]

These groups may be becoming more liberal but are the Democrats outflanking them on the left?

Is it a moving target.

These groups are conservative to begin with.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Raging at Republicans isn't a platform. Whipping up people who already hate Trump to really really REALLY hate Trump will do nothing to help the Dems win the election. It's catharsis. Or theatre. But it isn't politics.

And stomping your feet and saying "but Republicans did it first!!!" isn't an argument, it's a tantrum.

And yet, if we’ve learned anything from recent history it’s that whipping up people who already hate the opponent, throwing “tantrums,” theatre, and laying blame are not only welcome in the political sphere, they’re remarkably effective.

From Canada to the US, these things work wonders. You’re describing the playbook of the right over the last half decade, as leader after leader from the right wing gets elected. Really hard to blame the left for trying it out or saying “that’s not politics.”

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And yet, if we’ve learned anything from recent history it’s that whipping up people who already hate the opponent, throwing “tantrums,” theatre, and laying blame are not only welcome in the political sphere, they’re remarkably effective.

From Canada to the US, these things work wonders. You’re describing the playbook of the right over the last half decade, as leader after leader from the right wing gets elected. Really hard to blame the left for trying it out or saying “that’s not politics.”

Again it depends where you are on the spectrum.
Conservatives can throw tantrums because they want the status quo. The get off my lawn people. It's effective to rant that someone is coming to take your xxx away.


Liberals ranting that things arent changing enough doesnt have that same punch, especially if they are benefitting from the status quo as well, lobbyists, wall street etc..

Think of hockey arguments. Don Cherry is the conservative ranter. He can rant that what Carolina is doing is wrong. Can anyone rant that what Carolina is doing is right?

Is there a corsi ranter? He just gets shouted down.

That's why the outraged Democrat doesnt work compared to the outraged Republican.

[nik-]

wut

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Again it depends where you are on the spectrum.
Conservatives can throw tantrums because they want the status quo. The get off my lawn people. It's effective to rant that someone is coming to take your xxx away.


Liberals ranting that things arent changing enough doesnt have that same punch, especially if they are benefitting from the status quo as well, lobbyists, wall street etc..

Think of hockey arguments. Don Cherry is the conservative ranter. He can rant that what Carolina is doing is wrong. Can anyone rant that what Carolina is doing is right?

Is there a corsi ranter? He just gets shouted down.

That's why the outraged Democrat doesnt work compared to the outraged Republican.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Yes, 30 years of non-stop demonization created its own mythos. Republican propaganda puts GRRM to shame with its fantasy building.

It was so effective that people are still pulling the - “two horrible candidates, derp” - and even here, people equate HRC with DJT on a regular basis.

And - aside from the fact that she didn’t beat Trump - most people have very little reason for their hatred of her.

So you agree she was a toxic candidate then. 30 years of vilification made it far more difficult for her to win then say a Biden.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by GGG

So you agree she was a toxic candidate then. 30 years of vilification made it far more difficult for her to win then say a Biden.

Absolutely true. Yes. There's a pretty substantial basis for believing that Bernie Sanders would've beaten Trump, and he's a freaking socialist.

[Duruss]

Girly's post It's the old "but it's different" defences.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And yet, if we’ve learned anything from recent history it’s that whipping up people who already hate the opponent, throwing “tantrums,” theatre, and laying blame are not only welcome in the political sphere, they’re remarkably effective.

From Canada to the US, these things work wonders. You’re describing the playbook of the right over the last half decade, as leader after leader from the right wing gets elected. Really hard to blame the left for trying it out or saying “that’s not politics.”

Again, it works for Republicans because they're a more homogeneous group and they all vote. The Democrats are a coalition, and when they aren't enthusiastic about a particular candidate a lot of them stay home.

Look, I want the Democrats to win in 2020. But they won't be helping their chances if they assume every Democrat has the values and priorities of liberal white college graduates.

[GirlySports]

Why does it not make sense. People are more passionate about non-change than change.