[Rumour] LeBrun: Flames have interest in Toffoli (and other RHS top 6 forwards)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The key with the salvage trade is the timing, AKA, not letting a player's value bottom out.

Barker scored ~40 points in ~60 games the season before he was traded. The Hawks didn't wait two or three seasons after that to trade him, they dealt him the very next season after he started to show he wasn't that player.

Sam Bennett has a monster playoffs after a 3rd lacklustre regular season in a row? Better hold onto him! Oops, 15 point player.

I don't think Sam's POs affected the decision to keep him so much as the value that was being offered is even worse than keeping him.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The key with the salvage trade is the timing, AKA, not letting a player's value bottom out.

Barker scored ~40 points in ~60 games the season before he was traded. The Hawks didn't wait two or three seasons after that to trade him, they dealt him the very next season after he started to show he wasn't that player.

Exactly. In many of the cases cited in powerjunkie's excellent post, the team salvaged a disappointing pick by getting something while the player still had perceived value.

That's why the common fan refrain of 'better to hang onto him than trade him for [a realistic but disappointing return]' is so wrongheaded. It's classic sunk cost fallacy. There absolutely is something to lose by waiting too long to sell - the difference between a front-line player > a 1st round pick > decent prospect > a 2nd round pick > ?.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The key with the salvage trade is the timing, AKA, not letting a player's value bottom out.

Barker scored ~40 points in ~60 games the season before he was traded. The Hawks didn't wait two or three seasons after that to trade him, they dealt him the very next season after he started to show he wasn't that player.

Sam Bennett has a monster playoffs after a 3rd lacklustre regular season in a row? Better hold onto him! Oops, 15 point player.

Sure, though the Barker for Leddy trade was Feb 2010; 5.5 years after he was drafted in 2004...exactly the amount of time we have had Bennett. Obviously slightly different timelines for D vs. F though

It would be interesting to look back through the timing of each of those trades.

[Ped]

IIRC (and I might not be), wasn't Barker traded because he was one of those RFAs that the Hawks messed up the QO and then had to sign them for more than they wanted to or lose them to UFA?


It threw their salary structure out of whack.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Ped

IIRC (and I might not be), wasn't Barker traded because he was one of those RFAs that the Hawks messed up the QO and then had to sign them for more than they wanted to or lose them to UFA?


It threw their salary structure out of whack.

I think you are correct sir.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Ped

IIRC (and I might not be), wasn't Barker traded because he was one of those RFAs that the Hawks messed up the QO and then had to sign them for more than they wanted to or lose them to UFA?


It threw their salary structure out of whack.

He was signed for $3M which wasn’t out of whack with what RFA were getting at that time.

The Hawks had a ton of good players and some had to go.

The Hawks moving Barker may have been simply a matter on “no choice” as opposed to dumping him before everyone knew he stunk.


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[oldschoolcalgary]

There might have been some extenuating circumstances to Barker getting traded, but there was some calculus in the determination of who to trade as well...

Not unlike the discussion of a young DMan to dangle, its invariably fallen to Kylington as the most named player in trade proposals... the reason being, he was the player that fans were least upset to lose

[Vinny01]

I see Francis has his 3 moves the flames should do. He continues to beat the drum that Hamonic is near untouchable and I just don’t see it.

He thinks they need to swap Janko for Czarnik
Trade Bennett for something
Acquire Kapanen. Seems to think Brodie is the piece that should go but the Leafs would want Hamonic

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I see Francis has his 3 moves the flames should do. He continues to beat the drum that Hamonic is near untouchable and I just don’t see it.

He thinks they need to swap Janko for Czarnik
Trade Bennett for something
Acquire Kapanen. Seems to think Brodie is the piece that should go but the Leafs would want Hamonic

No idea if that’s the truth or not but if the Leafs really do prefer Hamonic to Brodie then the Flames should pull the trigger and not let Toronto change their minds.

Before this season I might have preferred Hamonic too but Brodie has been great since his return and Hamonic has fallen off a bit.

[djsFlames]

Hamonic for Kapanen
Czarnik called up
Janko waived or moved for a 4th/5th
Look at a fringe deal for D-depth similar to Fantenberg

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Mangiapane
Gaudreau - Monahan - Kapanen
Czarnik - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Bennett
Rinaldo, Rieder

Giordano - Brodie
Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Stone/Depth Trade/Valimaki
Yelesin

[Lanny_McDonald]

Czarnik is not a NHL player.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by New Era

Czarnik is not a NHL player.

Thank you. I never understood so many posters’ infatuation with this guy. Underwhelming.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Czarnik has an excellent game... out of every 10 or so he plays. He is also very one-dimensional.


It is more than fair to criticize Jankowski, but at least he provides some defence/PK ability, decent face-off stats, and if you really look, he is definitely underrated in playmaking. Now his stats absolutely suck, but hopefully this is the start of a turn around. He has had two full seasons of 'proving himself' and scoring at good rates, especially considering how the Flames utilize him and how much ice time he sees. This year has completely dried-up, but I would rather see him through the year and onto the next, just to make sure it just isn't an 'off year'. Czarnik is in no way an upgrade I think, and I really wanted to like him (and did for some stretches). He is simply too much of a tweener. I would actually prefer to see Phillips given a shot over Czarnik in the future.


As for the Hamonic thing that Francis is pushing - either he is out to lunch or he working with Treliving in trying to promote Hamonic's value. That's the only thing I can think of. I can't see the Flames re-signing him (especially for a raise). Brodie is much more important to the Flames, and so is Andersson. He isn't going to get a raise playing 3rd pairing minutes, and his play in itself is not deserving of a raise (IMO). Great guy, great intangibles, and a person that the Flames will for sure miss when he is gone, but not a guy that you re-sign for a raise on a multi-year deal. I just don't see it.

[Toonage]

I get people not liking Czarnik's game but if we're going to compare what he could do in a 4L role to what is there right now I just don't see why they don't give him a shot. He was scoring before he went down with the injury and all he's done in the AHL since coming back is put up points. The Flames are having issues scoring. They need/want another RHS. How is this not considered?

He doesn't have to move the needle for you, fine, but right now that 4L needle is moving backwards.

I'll also add that if they want to keep Jankowski around, the line of Bennett-Jankowski-Czarnik has looked pretty good together when they play.

[flamesfan55]

Originally Posted by dammage79

A good scenario is the Flames trade for 3 forwards. Toffoli, Kapanen and Lias Andersson. Send a couple of plugs to the popcorn room and bump down Magiapane and Backlund to where they IMO should be.

This would be my wish list also. But at what cost?

[Red]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I get people not liking Czarnik's game but if we're going to compare what he could do in a 4L role to what is there right now I just don't see why they don't give him a shot. He was scoring before he went down with the injury and all he's done in the AHL since coming back is put up points. The Flames are having issues scoring. They need/want another RHS. How is this not considered?

He doesn't have to move the needle for you, fine, but right now that 4L needle is moving backwards.

I'll also add that if they want to keep Jankowski around, the line of Bennett-Jankowski-Czarnik has looked pretty good together when they play.

Czarnik wasn't really scoring. He just happened to score a couple right before the injury he did the same last year and probably in Boston. He shoots a lot so some of these will bounce in, but he only has a couple good games every 15. Not an NHL player.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Czarnik wasn't really scoring. He just happened to score a couple right before the injury he did the same last year and probably in Boston. He shoots a lot so some of these will bounce in, but he only has a couple good games every 15. Not an NHL player.

I think people have really selective memories when Czarnik plays, maybe because when he's good he shows up on the score sheet, but when he's bad
he's invisible.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think people have really selective memories when Czarnik plays, maybe because when he's good he shows up on the score sheet, but when he's bad
he's invisible.

I'm not sure he's all that different from 4L players right now.

Rieder I suppose kills penalties. Rinaldo adds some energy. Bennett & Jankowski just seem to be there. Why not give them someone they have shown some chemistry with? Wring something out of that 4L.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think people have really selective memories when Czarnik plays, maybe because when he's good he shows up on the score sheet, but when he's bad
he's invisible.

Exaclty, people don't remember all the battles he loses. They just remember him shooting the puck. He does that a lot, maybe because he doesn't want to engage in battles and handles the puck like a grenade? Thats my theory anyway.

[GioforPM]

Wasn't the feeling also that Czarnik wasn't suited to bottom six play because his game wasn't gritty enough, but not good enough for top six play?