[PGT] One to go. Flames win 6-2

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by TOfan

That’s another good point. This move is going to save Flames ownership quite a bit of money in actual dollars (not cap dollars). A large chunk of the contract has already been paid by the Oilers. Although this might not mean much to the fans, cause all we really care about is cap dollars, but I’m sure it bought some good will for Treliving with the ownership group. Maybe Treliving gets to invest those dollars in coaching or scouting,

On the other hand maybe in a year or two from now Looch decides enough is enough and he decides to hang them up? Meanwhile the Oilers are carrying dead cap space for a Neal buyout or handing Seattle a couple picks/prospects for the ‘favour’ of taking The real deal off their hands in the expansion draft.

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I think Lucic had 19 million in owed dollars left on his contract when it was traded, but after paying the July 1 bonus it was 16 in actual dollars owed, less any retained salary. The Oilers retained 12.5% of the contract, but I'm not sure how the dollars on the retained salary work vs the cap hit since the bonus that the Oilers paid last year is worth more than 12.5% of the 19 million that was left on the deal if you were to look at it from the perspective of the whole season, or 16 million for the timeframe that the the Flames assumed.

Whereas Neal had 23 million remaining in salary obligations. So in terms of cash it could be anywhere from 7 to 10 million if both players were to play out the contracts. The Neal deal, is far more buyout friendly though as the last three years can be bought out for 11.5 ish million with a 6 year cap bogey of just under 2 million.

Looking at CapFriendly:

Lucic Contract:
2019-20 - $3M SB (already paid by Oilers at time of trade), $3M salary.
20-21 - $3M Signing Bonus, $1M salary.
21-22 - $2.5M SB, $2.5M salary
22-23 - $3M SB, $1M salary.

In total, $16 million left to be paid at the time of the trade, of which, the Oilers are retaining 12.5%, which is $2 million. So the Flames are only paying Lucic a total of $14 million for his remaining 4 years (at the time of the trade).

James Neal has no signing bonuses, and the same salary every year.

$5.75 million x 4 years = $23 million.

So, the trade worked out to be:


Neal

for

Lucic
3rd round pick
$750,000 cap space freed up for the next 4 years
$9 million in actual cash saved over 4 years.

[Bingo]

I can't get over the Jet fan in the ATL saying Tkachuk won't fight.

What does the guy have to do? He's already dropped Wheeler in this series with a punch to the face.

He's now had 11 NHL fights, and is averaging three per season for a guy that plays top six minutes, the powerplay and wears a letter.

Such a silly narrative that has no fact.

I was saying to an Oiler fan at my daughter's hockey the other day ... what we as Calgary fans couldn't get was the turtle thing. Tkachuk was playing Kassian and decided not fighting the guy would give the Flames an advantage. Tkachuk has always fought when he needed to.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Fair enough.

At the end of the day, Treliving did what he could to turn an untenable situation into a positive and it looks as though it has worked. I have a hard time being critical of the GM here. Even going back as far as the Neal signing itself.

Factors outside Treliving’s control; Neal showing up out of shape, Peters putting Lindholm with JG and SM (the right call), Neal’s subsequent obstinate attitude. Did it blow up in Treliving’s hands? Yep, sure did. But part of being a GM is assuming risk. You have to be willing to stick your neck out there to improve the team, which I suspect is the mandate from ownership. Improve the team. Again, I have a hard time laying blame solely at Treliving’s feet. Is he, or has he, done things other ‘reasonable’ GMs would not have done? I think so. I would say he has done better than ‘reasonable’.

Lastly, fairly certain if you look through each teams depth chart you will find ‘boat anchors’ occupying bottom 6/bottom pairing roster spots. Or worse, the player is in the AHL. It’s kind of an outdated argument saying ‘player X makes too much money to be on your fourth line’. I don’t think you can single out one, or two, contracts and say ‘that’s why it’s broken’. a skillful GM should be able to navigate the highs and lows to create a whole that fits the organizational philosophy. To date; Treliving has done that.

I agree for the most part and would add that my own well sourced but still second hand info is that Neal just had to be traded for off ice reasons. My only disagreement would be on the Neal signing itself. The same reason they had to trade him could have been discovered beforehand with a little in depth digging, with Vegas insiders for example. I think Treliving focussed too much on Neal’s past production and even there he didn't look at the historical trends in that production over the course of those seasons. Nor did he ask why the previous teams were happy to shed themselves of a “consistent” scorer.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I can't get over the Jet fan in the ATL saying Tkachuk won't fight.

What does the guy have to do? He's already dropped Wheeler in this series with a punch to the face.

He's now had 11 NHL fights, and is averaging three per season for a guy that plays top six minutes, the powerplay and wears a letter.

Such a silly narrative that has no fact.

I was saying to an Oiler fan at my daughter's hockey the other day ... what we as Calgary fans couldn't get was the turtle thing. Tkachuk was playing Kassian and decided not fighting the guy would give the Flames an advantage. Tkachuk has always fought when he needed to.

Plus, I never saw how Tkachuk was supposed to fight Kassian in the moment at that game. He hit him, started to follow the play up ice, and got grabbed from behind, with no chance to do anything other than cover up. There was never a chance to square up. And he went on to hit Kassian again and Kassian made zero move to fight him.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah I don’t think it’s needs sources that Neal was hated in this locker room.

Andersson and others have pretty much said as much on the record.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Plus, I never saw how Tkachuk was supposed to fight Kassian in the moment at that game. He hit him, started to follow the play up ice, and got grabbed from behind, with no chance to do anything other than cover up. There was never a chance to square up. And he went on to hit Kassian again and Kassian made zero move to fight him.

The whole thing came from the Oilers and Kassian and Staples and was picked up by the sportsnet guys who sensed a story that would sell hits that Tkachuk was a back biting coward.


I remember that somehow Kassian because the poster boy for a gun fighter that respected the un written code of the game. None of that was true. Kassian is literally gutless, you look at his hits, grabbing players from behind to pummel them and going after players that are not in his weight class.


I still remember after Kassian fought Tkachuk and Kassian skated by the Flames bench and I think Rinaldo basically said "I'm next" and Kassian started examining his skate laces.


I don't give a good god damn about what Staples said except its always hilarious and delusional and wrong. But at the same time Maurice's comments after the game while games man ship was pretty reprehensible and dishonest and what made it worse was that the talking heads out there picked it up, ignored what Tre said and continued to push that Tkachuk was a Cooke class player.


It was pretty despicable.

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Plus, I never saw how Tkachuk was supposed to fight Kassian in the moment at that game. He hit him, started to follow the play up ice, and got grabbed from behind, with no chance to do anything other than cover up. There was never a chance to square up. And he went on to hit Kassian again and Kassian made zero move to fight him.

It still absolutely boils my ####ing blood that all the talking heads were SO ####ing proud of Kassian for jumping a guy from behind and unloading on him without an actual invitation to fight, as retaliation for a clean ####ing hit. I wish I could Bertuzzi every single one of those ####ing mouthpieces and see how they feel about it then

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I was saying to an Oiler fan at my daughter's hockey the other day ... what we as Calgary fans couldn't get was the turtle thing. Tkachuk was playing Kassian and decided not fighting the guy would give the Flames an advantage. Tkachuk has always fought when he needed to.

No matter what the Flames will always get the last laugh out of that incident. There's little doubt in my mind that game played a role in Kassain getting that glorious 4 x $3.2 million extension shortly after.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No matter what the Flames will always get the last laugh out of that incident. There's little doubt in my mind that game played a role in Kassain getting that glorious 4 x $3.2 million extension shortly after.

I totally forgot they extended the cave man to that ridiculous contract right after the incident.

[SuperMatt18]

The craziest part of the whole thing was people calling Tkachuk scared of Kassian.

When your scared of someone you don’t target them not once, not twice, but three time’s with huge hits in the same game.

People were acting like he was targeting RNH and then refusing to answer the bell with Kassian. No, he was targeting the big idiot with the intention of getting him all worked up and didn’t have any fear of repercussions.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The craziest part of the whole thing was people calling Tkachuk scared of Kassian.

When your scared of someone you don’t target them not once, not twice, but three time’s with huge hits in the same game.

People were acting like he was targeting RNH and then refusing to answer the bell with Kassian. No, he was targeting the big idiot with the intention of getting him all worked up and didn’t have any fear of repercussions.

I think the entire league is sacred of Kassian. He kicked someone with his skates. In the words of Paul Maurice, he almost killed a player.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I can't get over the Jet fan in the ATL saying Tkachuk won't fight.

What does the guy have to do? He's already dropped Wheeler in this series with a punch to the face.

He's now had 11 NHL fights, and is averaging three per season for a guy that plays top six minutes, the powerplay and wears a letter.

Such a silly narrative that has no fact.

I was saying to an Oiler fan at my daughter's hockey the other day ... what we as Calgary fans couldn't get was the turtle thing. Tkachuk was playing Kassian and decided not fighting the guy would give the Flames an advantage. Tkachuk has always fought when he needed to.

For reference, since Tkachuk entered the league, this is the entire list of players that have fought more times than Tkachuk's 11, and also have scored more points than Tkachuk's 235:









END OF LIST.

The most fights by anyone in the same timeframe with more than 5 more points than Tkachuk (since he entered the league), is Marchand, with 6 fights.

Jamie Benn has 11 fights, and 240 points, Brayden Schenn has 8 fights, 237 points.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

https://twitter.com/user/status/1290804740885032962

anyone who thinks that isn't a clean hit, does not know how to hockey

in fact, if he DIDN'T finish that hit, I would have been disappointed with him

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The craziest part of the whole thing was people calling Tkachuk scared of Kassian.

When your scared of someone you don’t target them not once, not twice, but three time’s with huge hits in the same game.

People were acting like he was targeting RNH and then refusing to answer the bell with Kassian. No, he was targeting the big idiot with the intention of getting him all worked up and didn’t have any fear of repercussions.

I think the craziest part was that fans around the league seemed to regard Kassian as some pantheon of virtue and on top of that is a skilled player and also was defending the game against big mean Tkachuk on a play that didn't even get a minor. It's one thing to think Tkachuk is dirty if you're an opponent but don't go around thinking Kas is anything less than kicking thug PoS.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

anyone who thinks that isn't a clean hit, does not know how to hockey

in fact, if he DIDN'T finish that hit, I would have been disappointed with him

I'm not up in arms about it but I thought it was a touch late and with a player in a bad situation.

[Roof-Daddy]

Man I hope the Flames can finish this on Thursday.

My heart cannot handle a winner take all game 5.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

For reference, since Tkachuk entered the league, this is the entire list of players that have fought more times than Tkachuk's 11, and also have scored more points than Tkachuk's 235:









END OF LIST.

The most fights by anyone in the same timeframe with more than 5 more points than Tkachuk (since he entered the league), is Marchand, with 6 fights.

Jamie Benn has 11 fights, and 240 points, Brayden Schenn has 8 fights, 237 points.

Further, Tkachuk had 4 fights this season.

How many players had MORE than 5 fights this season?

4.

Nicolas Deslauriers
Austin Watson
Kyle Clifford
Ross Johnston

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm not up in arms about it but I thought it was a touch late and with a player in a bad situation.

Yeah...the hit isn't the best hit, and in the regular season that hit probably draws a bit more attention.

But this is the playoffs and in the playoffs you have to finish that hit 100% of the time.

[MrButtons]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

For reference, since Tkachuk entered the league, this is the entire list of players that have fought more times than Tkachuk's 11, and also have scored more points than Tkachuk's 235:









END OF LIST.

The most fights by anyone in the same timeframe with more than 5 more points than Tkachuk (since he entered the league), is Marchand, with 6 fights.

Jamie Benn has 11 fights, and 240 points, Brayden Schenn has 8 fights, 237 points.

Can't lie I refreshed a bunch because I thought the picture wasn't loading or something, touche.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I can't get over the Jet fan in the ATL saying Tkachuk won't fight.

What does the guy have to do? He's already dropped Wheeler in this series with a punch to the face.

He's now had 11 NHL fights, and is averaging three per season for a guy that plays top six minutes, the powerplay and wears a letter.

Such a silly narrative that has no fact.

I was saying to an Oiler fan at my daughter's hockey the other day ... what we as Calgary fans couldn't get was the turtle thing. Tkachuk was playing Kassian and decided not fighting the guy would give the Flames an advantage. Tkachuk has always fought when he needed to.

I like to think it is an autocorrect

He forgot the space between the words “won” and “the” and it came out “won’t”

It’s the only thing that makes sense