Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread

[Acey]

No better opportunity than a mass shooting to maintain good PR. It's not just stores, it's all the people jumping in against the flag pretending to care, when they clearly didn't care before, so they look good.

Not like I've ever avoided shopping at Crappy Tire because they had Confederate flags. Like it's just a damn flag. Sure, get rid of it... but don't act like that dumb flag is the end of the world and we need to be free of it without any delay when, again, nobody cared before.

We already won. I voted.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Acey

I'm talking about all the stores that are pulling it from shelves. Not the government flying it. Is it for good PR or is it supposed to accomplish something? Make black people feel better? Cause I don't. Make sure people don't identify your store as supporting racism? Rash action in response in response to one racist kid losing his marbles does nothing.

So tell me what I don't understand about pulling the flag after a racist mass murder.

The issue got brought more attention after the massacre. It's not to prevent anything. To remove a racist symbol from the merchandise they sell, does it have to prevent future massacres as well? I'm not understating your point I guess


Ediy: If you're point is "why now?", then I'd say it's because they don't want to wait until they get boycotted, or another retailer shows their public conscience.

[Acey]

If Crappy Tire came out and was like "we're not pulling our flags because we have no evidence or reason to believe the sale of this product contributes to violent outbursts of racist behaviour" I'd be like, "that is a logical point."

And continue to shop there.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Acey

If Crappy Tire came out and was like "we're not pulling our flags because we have no evidence or reason to believe the sale of this product contributes to violent outbursts of racist behaviour" I'd be like, "that is a logical point."

And continue to shop there.

A vocal group of people would not.

You aren't the spokesperson for "people" and there's polls to prove it.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Acey

If Crappy Tire came out and was like "we're not pulling our flags because we have no evidence or reason to believe the sale of this product contributes to violent outbursts of racist behaviour" I'd be like, "that is a logical point."

And continue to shop there.

And secondly, that's a really silly position to take. Selling miniature Hitlers is unlikely to contribute to future violent outbursts. Doesn't mean it would be prudent to not sell a racist symbol.

You're missing the point by light years here. There is no intent to save lives here, just be good members of society.

[Acey]

I don't pretend to represent anybody, nor do I care to. I'm just saying, white people pretending to care to pad their resumes is funny. For everyone who was making an effort to do it before this happened, fantastic. Carry on in the war against racism.

I haven't missed the point. There's no point to get... they're bailing on the flag cause a racist kid killed a bunch of black people. The fact that it took for that to happen for any significant action to be taken against the flag seems to not matter. I've been called a ###### by people who don't have Confederate flags on their jackets like this kid did, and by people who probably weren't empowered by pacing back and forth in front of the flag flying high in South Carolina. Oh the hilarity. All I see is the big picture because I've lived it, but the whole anti-flag rush for gold is nice, I guess. Keep it up.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Acey

So tell me what I don't understand about pulling the flag after a racist mass murder.

Do you understand why mainstream stores don't carry swastika flags?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Do you understand why mainstream stores don't carry swastika flags?

Appearing to supporting a Nazi symbol is a far worse position to take than appearing to support people who don't like black people. Absolutely understandable.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Are you suggesting the reason to have guns is to protect against the police?

protecting one's self and family from tyrannical government police forces is word for word what second amendment honks cite as a straight faced reason to have guns.

[Derek Sutton]

Wal Mart's stance against the flag sends strong message, almost as strong a message as if they stopped selling guns and ammunition all together (green text).

I can't belive the flag thing is being used to mis direct the real issues in this case. Perhaps had all this outrage and awareness been focused on mental health, poor parenting and gun culture, to name a few, some real progress could be made. I'm curious what the expected end game is by banning the flag, the are thousands, perhaps millions of rascists in the US who own guns that would never think of doing this.

[Acey]

There is no end game. It's just retroactive appeasement. A small consolation prize.

Apparently that's okay, however. It's "the right thing to do". Doesn't change what it is.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Acey

Appearing to supporting a Nazi symbol is a far worse position to take than appearing to support people who don't like black people. Absolutely understandable.

Right. It was the North vs the People who don't like black people.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Wal Mart's stance against the flag sends strong message, almost as strong a message as if they stopped selling guns and ammunition all together (green text).

I can't belive the flag thing is being used to mis direct the real issues in this case. Perhaps had all this outrage and awareness been focused on mental health, poor parenting and gun culture, to name a few, some real progress could be made. I'm curious what the expected end game is by banning the flag, the are thousands, perhaps millions of rascists in the US who own guns that would never think of doing this.

I think casual acceptance of racism is a real issue here, and that is what the flag represents. Is it the largest issue? Not by far. But it is low hanging fruit.

[jayswin]

I think Derek Sutton and Acey really need to watch that Jon Stewart take to gain some perspective on what getting rid of that horrendous flag would do.

And Derek Sutton, the old "Why are we doing A, when B C and D need attention" is a tired argument. Doing A isn't holding anyone or anything back from B C and D.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Wal Mart's stance against the flag sends strong message, almost as strong a message as if they stopped selling guns and ammunition all together (green text).

I can't belive the flag thing is being used to mis direct the real issues in this case. Perhaps had all this outrage and awareness been focused on mental health, poor parenting and gun culture, to name a few, some real progress could be made. I'm curious what the expected end game is by banning the flag, the are thousands, perhaps millions of rascists in the US who own guns that would never think of doing this.

Where does "mental health" come into this one in particular? We don't bitch and moan about mental health when other terrorists do nasty things.

As for the flag itself, it's a racist symbol flying on the lawn of the state capitol. It's not "misdirection" at all, it's part of the problem

And for those people down there who don't want it to come down — the world has clearly passed them by, and they'll die soon enough. Tell them to #### off, or leave, or whatever. It's the 21st century. Enough coddling these fools.

[afc wimbledon]

Actually the flag issue is utterly amazing, there is no way a couple of weeks ago, short of a civil war, I would have thought the south would disavow the flag, as of right now they are tripping over themselves to dump it.

Special points to senator Lindsey Graham, who is calling for the flag to be removed because it has 'become a symbol of racism and intolerance' as if it wasn't until last week and somehow keeping slaves wasn't racist and intolerant!

[Acey]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I think Derek Sutton and Acey really need to watch that Jon Stewart take to gain some perspective on what getting rid of that horrendous flag would do.

Watched it several times already. General sentiments of his monologue:

• Still a massive problem with race in the United States, a big indicator of which is the fact that the Confederate flag flies in SC
• Address the concern the US has for ISIS and foreign entities when there are serious domestic problems concerning race and disparity
• While he acknowledges the naming of things in SC and the flying of the flag as ridiculous and incomprehensible, at no point does he suggest that removing the flag will fix anything

...which aligns with my argument, since all I said was to go ahead and remove the flag but don't expect it to be a remedy for anything. The point remains. It's retroactive appeasement for the purpose of public relations.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Right. It was the North vs the People who don't like black people.

Just sayin'. I'll grab a friend and we'll both cruise down to Calgary, he with a big swastika on his rear window and I with a sizable Confederate flag. The harassment and looks I receive will be something resembling zero while his will be something substantially greater than that.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Acey

Just sayin'. I'll grab a friend and we'll both cruise down to Calgary, he with a big swastika on his rear window and I with a sizable Confederate flag. The harassment and looks I receive will be something resembling zero while his will be something substantially greater than that.

I doubt there would be anywhere as big a difference as you think. A lot of people today regard the confederate flag as tantamount to wearing a white sheet and carrying a torch. Not much to choose between Nazis and the KKK.

[Acey]

No way are they equivalent. You're going to get boos and stuff thrown at you if you walk down the street clearly portraying KKK, while one is a flag which some portion of people don't even know the full meaning of. I'd do the experiment myself but it wouldn't have the same effect.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It does seem peculiar that two of the greatest powers in the world are home to so many fearful, paranoid, violent people. The USA, despite its prosperity and its isolation from real conventional military threats, is a society seething in a cauldron of fear. I don't know where it comes from. Is is something to do with religion? Can a civil war 150 years ago have left such lasting wounds? Is it really all about race, and the visceral fear of the rampaging black man attacking white women? It's a baffling and terrifying culture.

The Fox News constituency has a whole lot to do with it. The fearmongering of the 24 hour news cycle has made people terrified of everything, and Fox News is the absolute worst at that. Claiming that there's a war on Christianity, that there's a war on men, a war on white people, etc, etc. Fox loves to terrify its viewers.

Not to mention the fact that a black man in the White House scares the hell out of a whole lot of good ol' boy racists. Racist sentiment has jumped dramatically since Obama took office, at least from what I've seen.

Originally Posted by Acey

Appearing to supporting a Nazi symbol is a far worse position to take than appearing to support people who don't like black people. Absolutely understandable.

Really? Hitler and the Nazi movement were absolute atrocities against humanity. But I'm pretty sure if you could go back in time and experience the conditions on those slave ships (look it up, but only if you don't have a weak stomach. It's appalling.), and realize that thousands upon thousands of black people died just on the journey across the ocean, only to come to North America to be sold as slaves and then beaten, raped, refused any kind of education, killed like livestock, and then even after slavery ended, they were then lynched with regularity, terrorized by people waving the Confederate flag--and you don't realize why some people might be kind of bothered by seeing that flag waving in front of a State Capitol building?

Yes, it's absolutely ridiculous that it took an event like this to prompt politicians to attempt changes, but that they're doing it now is only a problem because it is grossly overdue.