Ken King must go: Ken King please read

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

He seems like a nice enough guy but it's time for him to move on from the organization.

He's really not.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I wish there was an I don't know or not sure option on the poll as to be honest I am not 100% certain what his job really is these days.

to me bingo's comments makes the most sense. I'd have to think that KK did not wake up one day and decide to whip together a powerpoint deck and trot out CalgaryNext. I would have to think that he was acting on behalf of the owners and they were completely in the loop on what was going on.

to me, KK is the public face of the owners and that people on here want to shoot the messenger.

seems to me that in 2004 KK could have said he was running for mayor and not made a speech or a promise or put up a poster and he would have been elected - seems that time has not been kind to KK

I'm confident the owners didn't say to KK that week to put together a terrible looking powerpoint so even among Flames fans support is minimal.

[killer_carlson]

I voted No because King's job is to be the face of ownership as well as be the guy who takes bullets if necessary by taking tough stands in public, or trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I think he's doing a good job.

I think some fans don't have the slightest clue what his mandate from ownership is.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Fire

I think some fans don't have the slightest clue what his mandate from ownership is.

True. It's also true that the best interests of ownership aren't necessarily the same as the best interests of fans.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I voted No because King's job is to be the face of ownership as well as be the guy who takes bullets if necessary by taking tough stands in public, or trying to make the best of a bad situation.

I think he's doing a good job.

I think some fans don't have the slightest clue what his mandate from ownership is.

I'm pretty sure "be crass when talking to people who disagree with you" isn't part of the mandate. The guy kind of comes across as a jerk.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm pretty sure "be crass when talking to people who disagree with you" isn't part of the mandate. The guy kind of comes across as a jerk.

Unless the people he's talking to:

A) invite their response with their words (ie, Ken King you should be fired) or otherwise Chirp him or the organization.

B) do not like his answer so they keep asking the same question; or

C) are jerks

[nik-]

In how many interviews has he been told he should be fired?

[daredevil]

Not intending to be defensive here but for the sake of discussion:

If you are an NHL GM who basically got very little back in a trade, are you going to come out and be totally transparent with how the process went?

To do so ruins credibility with your peers.

Yzerman had his own agenda, and doesn't strike me as someone who stops moving based on someone else's timelines.

I'm not suggesting that is not unrealistic (or common) for Treliving to have to get approval.
I simply relayed information that was given to me.

For all I know it's just one small bargaining chip before getting a deal done.

It could be EVERYTHING to him, it could be NOTHING to him.

I'm sure many of us have been in a position where a boss/manager has interfered with us getting jobs done in the most effective manner possible.
Difference being most of us are not subject to contract renewals/negotiations every few years.

It's not even my attempt to suggest King is bad.
Sometimes I've had executives who were outstanding at their role... it's when they started also trying to stay too involved in the roles of their managers that things went badly.
Execs should delegate and then trust, unless track record indicates otherwise - which
doesn't seem the case here.

If I am considered "elite" in my field and I have an opportunity to play a card to either improve my contract or improve my authority that enables me to better perform my duties without impedance... I'm taking it.

GM's are evaluated based on the on ice performance so if something is blocking me from producing, and it's within my control to change it... I'm sure trying.

He's got some grounds to stand on, especially if he is considered a desirable asset.

From a hockey perspective (and not knowing ANY of the specifics of the deal):
If I had a deal for Bishop which would have better solidified my team leading up to battling for playoffs and maybe doing some damage, and it got killed because of this... I'd be annoyed.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'm pretty sure "be crass when talking to people who disagree with you" isn't part of the mandate. The guy kind of comes across as a jerk.

His job isn't even really to be a public spokesperson, that's the genius of owning a hockey team. Treliving/the coach/the star player are the public faces for the plebs. King is the corporate face, building interest in corporate tickets, boxes, advertising and promotion, liaising with the calgary chamber of commerce (which he used to head...) etc etc.

It is why he appears to come across so tone-deaf to the general public, he is the wrong messenger for the general public but you'd be hard pressed to find a better messenger for the rest of Corporate Calgary and the province.

Glad handing is a different skill than politicking publicly, which is one of Nenshi's skills and why King ends up looking so poor in those types of exchanges.

[normtwofinger]

Micromanagement will always handcuff a business.

[4X4]

Way back in the day, before the great run of 2004, KK used to wander the nosebleeds and give lower bowl tickets to us people that were actually cheering. I always thought that was pretty cool that the big dog was putting in some time with the plebs. That man's hands are gigantic. I felt like a child shaking his hand, and I'm not a small guy. I do realize that there was somewhat of an ulterior motive with that. Get cheering fans in the areas that the camera covers... But still nice, nonetheless.

That said, I think the arena situation is a joke, and is the reason I voted yes.

[Azure]

Didn't the deal hinge on being able to resign Bishop long-term?

Doesn't really make a lot of sense to me giving a 15 min deadline. Sure I know this is 2017, and we should be able to reach anyone and everyone at any time, but if the deal was solid and just needed approval, and they needed a bit of time to get it, I don't see why Yzerman would shut it down. If the deal from LA was better, he would have told Calgary that, and either the Flames do better or he goes with LA. It makes no sense.

Also, if King is meddling, he is only doing so because that is the mandate given to him by his bosses. I also don't understand what the point would be of hiring Burke.

All that being said, King is still doing a terrible job and needs to go.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

He's really not.

He really is. I've had numerous interactions with him and he has always been 100% genuine.

I don't believe the meddling accusations, need some solid proof.

He should walk away, not be fired. Only because that long in one job is too long.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by daredevil

Not intending to be defensive here but for the sake of discussion:

If you are an NHL GM who basically got very little back in a trade, are you going to come out and be totally transparent with how the process went?

To do so ruins credibility with your peers.

Yzerman had his own agenda, and doesn't strike me as someone who stops moving based on someone else's timelines.

I'm not suggesting that is not unrealistic (or common) for Treliving to have to get approval.
I simply relayed information that was given to me.

For all I know it's just one small bargaining chip before getting a deal done.

It could be EVERYTHING to him, it could be NOTHING to him.

I'm sure many of us have been in a position where a boss/manager has interfered with us getting jobs done in the most effective manner possible.
Difference being most of us are not subject to contract renewals/negotiations every few years.

It's not even my attempt to suggest King is bad.
Sometimes I've had executives who were outstanding at their role... it's when they started also trying to stay too involved in the roles of their managers that things went badly.
Execs should delegate and then trust, unless track record indicates otherwise - which
doesn't seem the case here.

If I am considered "elite" in my field and I have an opportunity to play a card to either improve my contract or improve my authority that enables me to better perform my duties without impedance... I'm taking it.

GM's are evaluated based on the on ice performance so if something is blocking me from producing, and it's within my control to change it... I'm sure trying.

He's got some grounds to stand on, especially if he is considered a desirable asset.

From a hockey perspective (and not knowing ANY of the specifics of the deal):
If I had a deal for Bishop which would have better solidified my team leading up to battling for playoffs and maybe doing some damage, and it got killed because of this... I'd be annoyed.

Not only that, but I would make a stand and force my higher ups to make a decision where I can do the job I was brought in to do. Which is fine.

I don't think anyone is blaming you. I just find the story strange. But I've been wrong before.

Regardless of what the truth is, King has screwed up the new arena project and that enough is reason to fire him. He's complacent and wants to bicker with the mayor instead of getting things done. It was obvious to anyone involved in the process or even anyone who read about CalgaryNext that there wasn't a hope in hell it would be approved. Not sure why King thought he could force it through.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Way back in the day, before the great run of 2004, KK used to wander the nosebleeds and give lower bowl tickets to us people that were actually cheering. I always thought that was pretty cool that the big dog was putting in some time with the plebs. That man's hands are gigantic. I felt like a child shaking his hand, and I'm not a small guy. I do realize that there was somewhat of an ulterior motive with that. Get cheering fans in the areas that the camera covers... But still nice, nonetheless.

That said, I think the arena situation is a joke, and is the reason I voted yes.

He still does that, been upgraded recently by him or an usher with him telling them to grab us.

[daredevil]

Originally Posted by Azure

Didn't the deal hinge on being able to resign Bishop long-term?

Doesn't really make a lot of sense to me giving a 15 min deadline. Sure I know this is 2017, and we should be able to reach anyone and everyone at any time, but if the deal was solid and just needed approval, and they needed a bit of time to get it, I don't see why Yzerman would shut it down. If the deal from LA was better, he would have told Calgary that, and either the Flames do better or he goes with LA. It makes no sense.

Also, if King is meddling, he is only doing so because that is the mandate given to him by his bosses. I also don't understand what the point would be of hiring Burke.

All that being said, King is still doing a terrible job and needs to go.

I think that was the deal at the draft for Bishop you are thinking about.

Yzerman was fairly active at the deadline... so who knows why the deadline, maybe is was due to another deal he was working?

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by atb

Relates to a rumor that was posted in another thread: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=172

Holy crap, if this is true, that is huge.....

[Johnny Rotten]

I'd like to change my vote...Wasn't thinking about his finger needing to be in anything. Why the hell have Burke, if hockey-related issues have to pass through King?

Any other billionaires or multi-millionaires in Calgary or nearby who can buy the Flames, keep them in Canada, and keep his nose out of hockey-related matters? Jim Treliving?

BTW, this is what Jim Treliving posted on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/JTreliving/statu...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Interesting when he writes that "We'll be back for 2018."

Hopefully, he knows something positive about his son's status in Calgary.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Can't see that Bishop rumor being true considering Tampa moved him a couple days before the deadline and Yzerman stating that nothing else was on the table

i don't see how this proves anything. I don't think GMs would state anything otherwise. Don't want to, potentially, burn any bridges.

[Manhattanboy]

I posted this in the Tre thread:

I have been a season ticket holder my entire life (dad first had them in the Corral when the team moved to Calgary) and people know me on this board.

I might start a new thread because of all things Flames related, if that rumour regarding King meddling in hockey operations, having final sign off, and not being available to approve the Bishop trade is true, I will not be able to contain my anger.

I really hope we can confirm because if this is the arrangement between ownership and management I am done - will immediately cancel my season tickets.