The Ongoing Dog Attack Mega-Thread

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I think we all convince ourselves that pet ownership is 2 way, but basically every cat I've owned seemed like it would be happier pissing off into the forest until it got hungry again.

I'm not saying I don't understand pet ownership by any means, as I'm an active participant in it. But taking a step back, it's really weird. Like a bunch of aliens swoop down and throw us in zoos. Sure we're well cared for, and they genuinely may care about us, and eventually we'll get all interbred and ####ed up. Does that mean that you should keep breeding the things just because "that bridge was crossed"?

I often thought about this when I had my dog. “I’ve essentially imprisoned this thing in my house for my own enjoyment. When I’m not there, he really doesn’t have much of anything to do. He’d definitely rather be outside most of the time. But he wouldn’t leave the yard even if there wasn’t a fence, so he wants to be here. And he’d probably be dead without me. So it’s fine.”

And then I’d pet him and he’d smile and all would be right. Dogs rule. Sucks some people need to use them as an extension of their insecure machismo.

[Dentoman]

Dogs take work and if you aren't willing to do it or can't afford it, then you shouldn't have one. As well, as an owner, you should know your dog's limits and understand what you need to keep your dog and those around it safe.
I have an Australian Shepherd. The absolute best family dog we could have. She had some significant reactivity issues that took a lot of work to get her through. It was not easy or cheap, but for me, it was worth it. But .... she still goes in her kennel when we have people at the house until she gets a feel for what is going on. If we ever have little kids over, she is not allowed out of her kennel. Why? Because I know my dog, and I don't trust her in those situations. She has a strong instinct to protect her family which at times over rides her training. She is completely crate trained and has no concerns being in it. She feels safe there and can turn off her "protection" switch in the crate. I want to set her up for success and for good experiences.
Would she bite someone? I highly doubt it but she certainly would run towards them to get between them and her family and bark aggressively. I'm not going to take that risk. As the old dog trainer saying goes, "The dog was perfect until it wasn't"
If you own pit bulls or any other dog with an aggressive streak, you need to know your dog and control it's situations. Leaving it alone in the backyard with 2 other dogs with the same traits ..... bad/stupid decison.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Coach

I often thought about this when I had my dog. “I’ve essentially imprisoned this thing in my house for my own enjoyment. When I’m not there, he really doesn’t have much of anything to do. He’d definitely rather be outside most of the time. But he wouldn’t leave the yard even if there wasn’t a fence, so he wants to be here. And he’d probably be dead without me. So it’s fine.”

And then I’d pet him and he’d smile and all would be right. Dogs rule. Sucks some people need to use them as an extension of their insecure machismo.

The reality is that out in the wild a dog would more or less be sleeping or chilling out when they are not on the hunt for food. Dogs sleep between 12-20 hours of he day depending on their age. When you leave your dog in the house they are probably doing exactly what they would be doing in the wild providing they are nourished. As long as you are taking them out for at least two walks a day they are getting plenty of stimulation.

[Doctorfever]

Truly a terrible thing to happen to any person, being mauled by dogs.

I love dogs. Love them so much I don’t own one. I just do not have enough free time to spend with a pet. They need, and deserve time and attention.

With that said, I do not understand attack dog ownership. It just doesn’t make sense to me to own an animal that could just ‘snap’ one day.

One thing that was brought up earlier is the amount of dogs people own. Some people I know had two full size dogs for many years. Dogs were reasonably well trained and were never any trouble. They took in another full size dog that was very well trained as a favour to someone.

After a few months together, the dogs started to develop a pack mentality. They became aggressive as a group. Again, we are talking about three individual dogs that probably would have been fine on their own or as a pair.

It should be noted that when you get 3 or more dogs together, this can happen. Of course it won’t happen with every three dogs, but it did happen with these dogs and has happened many times before.

I would never own a pit bull, but owning three of any aggressive breeds should be against the law. And people also need to understand how pack mentality can change normally good dogs into aggressive pack hunters.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The reality is that out in the wild a dog would more or less be sleeping or chilling out when they are not on the hunt for food. Dogs sleep between 12-20 hours of he day depending on their age. When you leave your dog in the house they are probably doing exactly what they would be doing in the wild providing they are nourished. As long as you are taking them out for at least two walks a day they are getting plenty of stimulation.

Dogs don't sleep alone in the den in the wild. They are always around other dogs. They are also never confined in the wild. This affects some dogs more than others, but some definitely suffer severe anxiety when their owners are away. In their world, they've either been abandoned or their owners are dead. People seem to get a kick out of having a dog be excited to see them when they arrive home, but in reality the dog may be going through severe psychological trauma and feeling extreme relief when you arrive.

[OldDutch]

I did my first puppy training class today and man what and eye opener. Its really good, but basically everything fun you want to do with the dog can’t be done until you have them rigorously trained. My puppy had a complete spaz out like I have never seen because the trainer tried to check his collar.

Luckily he’s 10 pounds and she’s patient but he full on snapped under the stress.

I could only imagine a full grown pit bull doing that. Its scary to watch even my dog go through it.

But its back to the point where you have to have them basically broken to rebuild how they see things and have that level of control over them. I can see its a ton of work. It was also interesting that out of 15 dogs not a single bully breed. The ones that need it the most.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

I did my first puppy training class today and man what and eye opener. Its really good, but basically everything fun you want to do with the dog can’t be done until you have them rigorously trained. My puppy had a complete spaz out like I have never seen because the trainer tried to check his collar.

Luckily he’s 10 pounds and she’s patient but he full on snapped under the stress.

I could only imagine a full grown pit bull doing that. Its scary to watch even my dog go through it.

But its back to the point where you have to have them basically broken to rebuild how they see things and have that level of control over them. I can see its a ton of work. It was also interesting that out of 15 dogs not a single bully breed. The ones that need it the most.

well, that two sentences are a bit much, just because you were at a class that didn't have bully breeds doesn't mean they aren't getting training.

I know people who have them and are very good people, treat their dogs very well and are well trained. Highly educated, successful people who love the breed. For some reason this isn't talked about in here, there are good bully breed owners. I know I am going to get any bully breed owner is a bad owner because you shouldn't have them in the first place shtick, but again, I really don't think these breeds will ever be completely eliminated. We can reduce numbers for sure, but never eliminated because there will always be backyard breeders.

It is the people we have already talked about who seem to be on the lower IQ spectrum that tend to get bully breeds to appear tough to their family and friends, probably the public too that are the problem here. These are the people who think they can train a dog without any prior knowledge of dog training, or to socialize their dog properly. The problem with having a bully breed in public is people judge the dog before even meeting it, just by appearance, which is fair. Anyway, with that it is hard to go to any sort of off leash park or place to socialize a dog, so people with bully breeds tend to stick together. It is a weird social thing that I have noticed.

Again, just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean people with bully breeds aren't training them. I have a mastiff/lab mix, he is big and people shy away from him because of his size (100lbs), but he is well mannered, his best friend is our 20lbs cockerpoo, he loves little dogs. Anyway, we don't go to dog parks because he scares people, we stick to our friends and family and their dogs who all get a long and we do the "rent a private, fenced off leash park" thing together.

Highly recommend this to people who want the off leash experience, but without any unknown dogs there, this is a great option.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

well, that two sentences are a bit much, just because you were at a class that didn't have bully breeds doesn't mean they aren't getting training.

I know people who have them and are very good people, treat their dogs very well and are well trained. Highly educated, successful people who love the breed. For some reason this isn't talked about in here, there are good bully breed owners. I know I am going to get any bully breed owner is a bad owner because you shouldn't have them in the first place shtick, but again, I really don't think these breeds will ever be completely eliminated. We can reduce numbers for sure, but never eliminated because there will always be backyard breeders.

It is the people we have already talked about who seem to be on the lower IQ spectrum that tend to get bully breeds to appear tough to their family and friends, probably the public too that are the problem here. These are the people who think they can train a dog without any prior knowledge of dog training, or to socialize their dog properly. The problem with having a bully breed in public is people judge the dog before even meeting it, just by appearance, which is fair. Anyway, with that it is hard to go to any sort of off leash park or place to socialize a dog, so people with bully breeds tend to stick together. It is a weird social thing that I have noticed.

Again, just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean people with bully breeds aren't training them. I have a mastiff/lab mix, he is big and people shy away from him because of his size (100lbs), but he is well mannered, his best friend is our 20lbs cockerpoo, he loves little dogs. Anyway, we don't go to dog parks because he scares people, we stick to our friends and family and their dogs who all get a long and we do the "rent a private, fenced off leash park" thing together.

Highly recommend this to people who want the off leash experience, but without any unknown dogs there, this is a great option.

My major problem with this argument is that having a Pit Bull/Bully breed just seems to be adding on extra danger for no reason. I get that these breeds are loyal, affectionate, intelligent, etc... But surely there is another breed of dog with similar personality traits that doesn't also have the anatomy of a killer? Or couldn't they just breed out these physical traits, like gigantic jaws and extremely strong neck muscles? As others have said, all dogs can snap. Why do we need to have dogs with anatomy that makes them excellent fighters/killers so when they snap they do much more damage?

I totally get people who take in pre-existing dogs of these breeds, who would otherwise not have a home. But why are we breeding more?

I just don't buy the "responsible owner with a pit bull" argument. It seems like an irresponsible choice to breed a dog like this in the first place. People are obviously just getting these dogs because they like the tough look. Otherwise why not just breed a non-fighting dog.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by blankall

My major problem with this argument is that having a Pit Bull/Bully breed just seems to be adding on extra danger for no reason. I get that these breeds are loyal, affectionate, intelligent, etc... But surely there is another breed of dog with similar personality traits that doesn't also have the anatomy of a killer? Or couldn't they just breed out these physical traits, like gigantic jaws and extremely strong neck muscles? As others have said, all dogs can snap. Why do we need to have dogs with anatomy that makes them excellent fighters/killers so when they snap they do much more damage?

I totally get people who take in pre-existing dogs of these breeds, who would otherwise not have a home. But why are we breeding more?

I just don't buy the "responsible owner with a pit bull" argument. It seems like an irresponsible choice to breed a dog like this in the first place. People are obviously just getting these dogs because they like the tough look. Otherwise why not just breed a non-fighting dog.

It isn't just because of the tough look, those other traits people like. To be honest, how many pure bred pitbulls have you seen in Alberta? Most of them are mixed breeds with a bully breed in them.

I rarely see a true pure bred pitbull here in Calgary. People aren't breeding them all over the place, that is what I don't get (I just googled and found 1 breeder in Calgary, who has 1 female that can have a litter a year, so maybe 5 to 10 pups). They are likely mostly dogs from rescues who are bringing dogs in from the US who aren't trained from a young age, etc. Who already have issues that are hard to deal with. This is what should stop, don't bring in more and more dogs from other countries with behaviour issues. This would probably help remove a lot of those dogs that aren't trained or socialized that cause issues for people. Americans and other countries with high crime rates get dogs like pitbulls for protection, they are chained in the backyard and never socialized and are bred to kill. Then us nice Canadians don't think any dogs should be euthanized so we try to save them, which isn't ideal, but for sure happens.

I also forgot to mention that most attacks are from unaltered adult dogs. 97% of fatal dog attacks on humans are from unaltered adult dogs, this is based off info from the US CDC. Neuter/spay your dogs people!


I posted a link a few pages back and pitbulls are not even close to the main culprit of deadly attacks in Canada. 1 to 3 deaths annually for the last 50 years in Canada from dogs killing people and majority are dog sled dogs/malmutes/huskies.

I 100% do not support breeding pitbulls. There are enough mixed breeds out there that need help, and a lot of them are mixed with pitbulls. Have you driven through a Native reserve lately? Have you seen the 10s of 100s of dogs running around loose in packs? This is a big problem in Canada, this is where a lot of dogs in rescues come from or puppy mills.

Can't fix stupid.

[Dentoman]

In my mind, this isn't about having a larger breed of dog. A mastiff/lab cross would definitely be a gentle giant. A bull mastiff would be an awesome family dog. Their high pain tolerance and laid back nature is perfect for families.
The issue with pit bulls in particular is their breeding and instincts. They were bred for one purpose. The traits are well ingrained in the breed ... just like my Australian Shepherd has ingrained traits/instincts that I need to be aware of. But the traits/instincts I need to be aware of are much less dangerous than the traits/instincts of a pit bull.
You need to know your dog no matter what breed you have. Having a bully breed, increases the responsibility on the owner immensely. Many are not prepared for it and the consequences are severe.
Don't get me wrong, there are irresponsible Australian Shepherd owners out there as well. The number of out of control, reactive Aussies is quite bad actually. That's why you see very few of them out for walks, lol.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

It isn't just because of the tough look, those other traits people like. To be honest, how many pure bred pitbulls have you seen in Alberta? Most of them are mixed breeds with a bully breed in them.

I rarely see a true pure bred pitbull here in Calgary. People aren't breeding them all over the place, that is what I don't get (I just googled and found 1 breeder in Calgary, who has 1 female that can have a litter a year, so maybe 5 to 10 pups). They are likely mostly dogs from rescues who are bringing dogs in from the US who aren't trained from a young age, etc. Who already have issues that are hard to deal with. This is what should stop, don't bring in more and more dogs from other countries with behaviour issues. This would probably help remove a lot of those dogs that aren't trained or socialized that cause issues for people. Americans and other countries with high crime rates get dogs like pitbulls for protection, they are chained in the backyard and never socialized and are bred to kill. Then us nice Canadians don't think any dogs should be euthanized so we try to save them, which isn't ideal, but for sure happens.

I posted a link a few pages back and pitbulls are not even close to the main culprit of deadly attacks in Canada. 1 to 3 deaths annually for the last 50 years in Canada from dogs killing people and majority are dog sled dogs/malmutes/huskies.

I 100% do not support breeding pitbulls. There are enough mixed breeds out there that need help, and a lot of them are mixed with pitbulls. Have you driven through a Native reserve lately? Have you seen the 10s of 100s of dogs running around loose in packs? This is a big problem in Canada, this is where a lot of dogs in rescues come from or puppy mills.

Can't fix stupid.

This is a very good point! The lack of socialization is a big issue

[blankall]

Originally Posted by foshizzle11

It isn't just because of the tough look, those other traits people like. To be honest, how many pure bred pitbulls have you seen in Alberta? Most of them are mixed breeds with a bully breed in them.

I rarely see a true pure bred pitbull here in Calgary. People aren't breeding them all over the place, that is what I don't get (I just googled and found 1 breeder in Calgary, who has 1 female that can have a litter a year, so maybe 5 to 10 pups). They are likely mostly dogs from rescues who are bringing dogs in from the US who aren't trained from a young age, etc. Who already have issues that are hard to deal with. This is what should stop, don't bring in more and more dogs from other countries with behaviour issues. This would probably help remove a lot of those dogs that aren't trained or socialized that cause issues for people. Americans and other countries with high crime rates get dogs like pitbulls for protection, they are chained in the backyard and never socialized and are bred to kill. Then us nice Canadians don't think any dogs should be euthanized so we try to save them, which isn't ideal, but for sure happens.

I also forgot to mention that most attacks are from unaltered adult dogs. 97% of fatal dog attacks on humans are from unaltered adult dogs, this is based off info from the US CDC. Neuter/spay your dogs people!


I posted a link a few pages back and pitbulls are not even close to the main culprit of deadly attacks in Canada. 1 to 3 deaths annually for the last 50 years in Canada from dogs killing people and majority are dog sled dogs/malmutes/huskies.

I 100% do not support breeding pitbulls. There are enough mixed breeds out there that need help, and a lot of them are mixed with pitbulls. Have you driven through a Native reserve lately? Have you seen the 10s of 100s of dogs running around loose in packs? This is a big problem in Canada, this is where a lot of dogs in rescues come from or puppy mills.

Can't fix stupid.

I honestly don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying. I take no issue with people being compassionate to existing dogs. The fact of the matter is that people are breeding more pit bull type dogs. It's still legal, and I just don't get why.

The debate with Pit Bulls always also seems to come down to people not training them well enough to not be killers....how about just having dogs that don't have such aggressive instincts in the first place. How many Golden Retriever caused deaths are there?

Stating that Canada has bigger problems with strays doesn't really alter the debate. That's like stating more people die in motor vehicle collision, so let's let everyone own assault rifles.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by blankall

Stating that Canada has bigger problems with strays doesn't really alter the debate. That's like stating more people die in motor vehicle collision, so let's let everyone own assault rifles.

The reality is that this is probably low priority until a dog attack tragedy strikes someone's family in wealthy and/or political circles to which this will immediately be fast tracked in importance.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

The debate with Pit Bulls always also seems to come down to people not training them well enough to not be killers....how about just having dogs that don't have such aggressive instincts in the first place. How many Golden Retriever caused deaths are there?

It's always the same story too. The owners always claim it was such a good dog and never showed any indications that it could happen. They always seem to be in shock or disbelief that their goofy and gentle pittie could do that.

I get it too. My niece and her boyfriend have a pit bull. It seems like the friendliest dog in the world. To defend her decision to own one, it actually belonged to her boyfriend's grandfather, and they took it in when he passed away. It's well trained and has never shown aggression. Even then, they always put a muzzle on her when walking her and don't leave her alone with kids or other dogs, because you can just never know for sure.

I am on the side of just not breeding them anymore. Society sets all kinds of laws where the standard to protect is set to the lowest bar.

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by Misterpants

They can get a Boston Dynamics dog.

Those are going to kill more people.

[karl262]

There was an onion article years ago whose headline read "golden retriever mauls 5 in huge victory for pitbull apologists"

[Locke]

Originally Posted by karl262

There was an onion article years ago whose headline read "golden retriever mauls 5 in huge victory for pitbull apologists"

I remember watching a clip of a bad low-budget movie where the protagonist was supposed to be mauled by a pack of dogs, but for whatever reason all they could get on set that day were Golden Retrievers....

It was hilarious!

"Oh no! He's being smothered in Love!!"

[Minnie]

I've mentioned before that we live across from a mixed use/off leash park. Daily, sometimes multiple times in a day, we are witness to dog owners screaming at other dog owners because almost none of them seem to be able to comprehend that outside of the park, all dogs MUST be leashed - and invariably, someone's dog charges someone else's dog and it's on like donkey kong. It's the law (bylaw), that they must be leashed and very few dogs - I'd estimate that 95% of the dogs are not leashed. We've seen owners nearly come to blows, more than once. There has yet to be a bad dog fight/mauling here, but it's come close a few times.

We have had dogs charge from across the street, and come into our home, bouncing off our furniture. We have pulled into our driveway and I've had someone's dog in my lap the second I open the car door. I have no idea if the dog is going to lose its schmidt if I try pushing it off my lap, so I have to wait for the owner to retrieve it. We have rescued people's dogs from the middle of the street, saving them from getting splattered by the idiot around the corner who drives like a maniac.

We have been chased out of our own front yard/driveway by unleashed, aggressive dogs. We have been screamed at, and nearly assaulted because we had the temerity apparently, to remind them that their dog must be leashed outside of the park, as they're yelling at their dog to come back to them. If you have zero recall with your dog, then your dog is not trained. When the bylaw mentions "care & control", your dog coming when called is part of that, and that stands, even inside the dog park. But, these are also the people who park across our driveway constantly, who try to argue that it isn't a driveway. These are the same people who have physically assaulted our neighbor when she has tried to protect herself from their unleashed aggressive dog.

Our dogs aren't allowed in the front yard anymore. Too many aggressive dogs and dumbarse owners. We have been told by 1 woman, that she doesn't have to comply because she's a cop's wife and has a special license that means she doesn't have to leash her dog. Right. Sure. And I'm actually Johnny Gaudreau, lady. There used to be a guy who showed up with his 2 dogs (Labs) crammed in the back of his truck, locked under the tonneau cover. He would stand at the back of the truck and work those dogs up to a lather, getting them ridiculously overexcited, then he'd whip the tailgate down and those dogs would shoot out of the back of that truck like bullets, barking frantically, charging toward the park. He'd laugh and laugh at people who panicked at the sight of his dogs coming at them and their dogs, so aggressively. Our entire street finally Karen'd him away from coming to this park, because of how he behaved with his dogs. He hasn't been around in a year. Calling the cops/bylaw is pointless, all we ever hear is how they couldn't possibly do their job. The only time we'll ever see any jump out of them, will be when someone's dog or a kid/adult gets mauled badly, or killed.

I used to defend pitties/bully breeds. I can't anymore. I especially can't after watching that horrific video someone linked a page or 2 back. I feel bad for the dog, because I tend to think, based on everything we witness every day, in front of our home, that it's primarily an owner issue and the dog is screwed because their owner is an idiot. They were originally bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. That is not the job they are bred to do anymore. Now, they seem to be an ego/status thing and people don't seem to really know how to deal with them and that is such a disservice to the dogs, and for that I feel sorry for the dogs because they have no chance because of that.

There's also always going to be some of them that are just bat guano crazy, that's true of every breed - we took in a small terrier type dog about 10 years ago, who lost her mind over changing homes. We worked with her for months, but it was clear that nothing was working, NOTHING. We tried everything and even the vet finally conceded that nothing was likely to work. She was euthanized because she could not be trusted around any of us any more and it wasn't fair for her to be that traumatized and spend her life locked in a crate. That was our responsibility, as owners, to recognize that not every dog can be saved/rehabilitated and it's the kinder thing to euthanize them.

We have a neighbor down the street that has 2 pitties. They are NEVER off-leash, and both he and his girlfriend have done and continue to do extensive training with them. They are incredibly well-behaved dogs but I still give them the side-eye because there has been a lot go wrong for a lot of the breed. Even if I was interested in the breed, I know that they are far too much dog for me to handle, and I don't have the time or energy (nor physical ability anymore) to do the extensive training that breed needs.

I don't know what the answer is. I know that on the whole, dog owners around here anyway, are utter #####e and it's reflected in their dogs. We know the good dogs that come here, with caring owners and we interact with them whenever we can. We know which dogs are allowed treats and they know we're good for a treat, LOL. The best dog I'll never own lives 5 houses down from us and she stops on her way to and from walks, for ear scritches and pats. I just wish there were more owners like hers.

[flambers]

Personally, I have dogs.. We train etc.

1st step, never go to an off leash dog park.

Its a disaster waiting to happen

We personally go to lots of fun places without anyone around.

My view, these situations are all about the handlers....

[Weitz]

Yah we don’t go to the off leash parks in Calgary anymore. Too many bad owners and untrained dogs.