Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Bennett led the Flames in face off win percentage, was second in takeaways and third on the team in takeaways over giveways.

Every number suggests a scrapiness.

His shooting percentage was off and that hurt his numbers but he still finished in the mid 200s for forward scoring, or a 7-8 forward in a league with 31 teams.

'Faceoff percentage'? 'Jam'?

Bennett won 18 more draws this year than Brouwer. 129 less than Stajan. 590 less than Monahan.

To put this in perspective, Bennett took 219 total faceoffs this year and 78 of those came in the first 8 games of the season before Janko was called up and Bennett was bumped from the pivot position. Nick Shore by comparison took 116 draws in just 9 games for Calgary.

Since january 1st of this year, Bennett is 7th on the roster in Faceoffs taken with 108 in 43 games. Brouwer was 50% on the dot in that timeframe, taking 52 more draws even though he played in just 37 games. Monahan in 35 games took 680 draws.

I suppose faceoff percentage is something to hang your hat on, but it ain't much.

His shooting percentage was off and that hurt his numbers but he still finished in the mid 200s for forward scoring, or a 7-8 forward in a league with 31 teams.

His shooting percentage was off...for the second straight year. Definitely linemates play a part in that, but I don't think that's something you use to a defend a guy in his third year in the league. He got opportunity with the top line and didn't convert. I don't remember a ton of posts from Bennett this year but maybe that's a metric counted somewhere. Mostly, he's winging shots high and wide. Didn't you post that he lead the team in missed shots by a country mile?

Instead of comparing him to the detritus of the league, why not compare him to players playing the same kind of minutes, say 14-16 minutes a game?

For that group, he's 10th worst in plus minus (Below him are 3 canucks, 2 yotes, a sabre, an av and a star, aka, the worst in the league)

He's 61st for points in the league for guys who play 14-16 minutes a night. (the donskoi's of the world ahead of him), 75th in Points Per Game

There are only 82 guys in the entire NHL this year who played between 14 and 16 minutes for 40 or more game this year and bennett finished 75th among them. 75 out of 82.

I don't know if there's a player in the league that has a worse mix of penalties and points per 60 playing 14-16 minutes a night.

And that's basically bennett's problem in a nut shell. So far he's shown that he isn't capable of playing more minutes because he takes too many penalties and doesn't produce enough offense. It's tough to elevate him into the lineup because the more minutes you play him, the more penalties he takes.

Over the last 43 games of the season Bennett was tied with Backlund for second on the team in minor penalties despite averaging 7 minutes less per game than the team leader in minors Hamilton. 10 minutes less than Giordano, who took one less minor than bennett did despite playing 445 more total minutes.

Ferland averaged less icetime than bennett since the first of the year and more than doubled his offensive production, in less actual games played, while taking 22 less PIMs and having the same number of fighting majors.

In the back half of the season, Matt Stajan scored more than Bennett did.

In the final 43 games, Hathaway was a -2, Janko a -7 and Bennett a -13.

I don't see how 'jam' makes up for this.

[corporatejay]

Sam Bennett was the right pick. He's also a bust. Need to try and trade him to see if a change of scenery helps. One for one for Max Domi.


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[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Sam Bennett was the right pick. He's also a bust. Need to try and trade him to see if a change of scenery helps. One for one for Max Domi.


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You don’t understand what the word means if you’re calling Bennett a bust at this point.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

You don’t understand what the word means if you’re calling Bennett a bust at this point.

How about reclamation project?

[Roof-Daddy]

Bennett is not a "bust"

If anything he's a disappointment and hasn't live up to expectations so far, but he's an NHL player at this point.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Will be happy to be wrong.

If one made a list of players who dramatically improved after playing 250 NHL games, who would be on it?
Van Riemsdyk is one, others?

Sean Couturier.

[Strange Brew]

He is a disappointment. Not bust yet.

So has "jam" replaced "grease"?

[FlamesAddiction]

I know that drastic production improvement after a certain number of professional games becomes less likely, I can't get past the fact Bennett is only 21. I usually don't start writing off expectations until they are around 23.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by nik-

Please don't trade anyone before a new coach is here.

There will be movement. It sounds like management have identified some guys with a low give a damn meter.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Will be happy to be wrong.

If one made a list of players who dramatically improved after playing 250 NHL games, who would be on it?
Van Riemsdyk is one, others?

Henrik Sedin. Mikael Granlund. Bertuzzi. Kadri. Cam Neely. Hoffman - not in NHL games played but in seasons bouncing up and down from the AHL.

Oh, and St. Louis.

[RedMan12]

This boy needs a live dose of Daryl Sutter.

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[Corral]

Originally Posted by rhino

There will be movement. It sounds like management have identified some guys with a low give a damn meter.

Yes - and Sam Bennett is not one of those guys.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Corral

Yes - and Sam Bennett is not one of those guys.

Not quite sure where I said he was??

[Beninho]

Problem with Bennett is that he seems to be below average at shooting and passing, he has other areas where he is NHL caliber but until he drastically improves his shooting and passing he will be a bottom 6 player. I think management should see how he performs next year under a new coach, if he shows zero progression again then I would look into moving him. It’s a shame he hasn’t developed into a good player yet but I’d like to see one more year of Bennett. You have to think management made sure he was aware of their dissapoitment in his play, he needs to have a massive offseason.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

His shooting percentage was off...for the second straight year. Definitely linemates play a part in that, but I don't think that's something you use to a defend a guy in his third year in the league. He got opportunity with the top line and didn't convert. I don't remember a ton of posts from Bennett this year but maybe that's a metric counted somewhere. Mostly, he's winging shots high and wide. Didn't you post that he lead the team in missed shots by a country mile?

This is in part a consequence of playing in Gulutzan's ridiculous same handed/same sided "hold onto the puck as long as you can until the other team can get in the way" system that also ruined Brodie's offensive ability and caused the whole team's shooting percentage to drop. If you put Bennett on the right side (we need two top six right wingers anyway), and put Brodie back on his natural side, you improve the shooting angles for both and significantly reduce the number of shots that are wide. By transitioning to a quick-strike offense, you can significantly cut down on the number of blocked shots.

I truly believe that a new coaching staff will do wonders for both Bennett and Brodie, if the right candidates are chosen and they coach to players' strengths rather than being too rigid with a pre-conceived system.

[Vinny01]

With a guarantee of a new coach the Flames should absolutely keep Bennett unless there is a ridiculous overpay

[Calgary4LIfe]

Bennett hasn't progressed offensively, but I think he is night and day better in just about every other facet of the game. He is LIGHTYEARS better defensively than when he started. He is so much stronger out there and rarely loses a puck battle. He is going to be this team's most complete player and probably one of the most important cogs to winning.

Bennett will start clicking offensively. If you have followed this thread, there are a tonne of great examples of players that took longer to get it going. With a change in coaches, who knows what effect this will have on him?

Often a coach comes in and starts breaking up lines and changing player utilizations as he sees fit. I do not think that Gulutzan has put Bennett in many good places to succeed offensively, nor do I think the actual system employed helped matters either. Bennett has speed, and he makes plays at speed. I have been harping on this fact for probably over a year - Bennett needs to play with someone else who can play at his pace. I also think that a system change - one that is likely to increase the speed at which this team plays - will greatly benefit him.

Time will tell. Bennett looked like he was about to bust open under Hartley, took a few steps back offensively under Gulutzan, and hopefully under a new regime, it will prove to be more conducive to his development and he can develop into a valuable 2-way player that can play in any situation.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

This is in part a consequence of playing in Gulutzan's ridiculous same handed/same sided "hold onto the puck as long as you can until the other team can get in the way" system that also ruined Brodie's offensive ability and caused the whole team's shooting percentage to drop. If you put Bennett on the right side (we need two top six right wingers anyway), and put Brodie back on his natural side, you improve the shooting angles for both and significantly reduce the number of shots that are wide. By transitioning to a quick-strike offense, you can significantly cut down on the number of blocked shots.

I truly believe that a new coaching staff will do wonders for both Bennett and Brodie, if the right candidates are chosen and they coach to players' strengths rather than being too rigid with a pre-conceived system.

Once again a poster doesn't understand the rh/lh system. Tell me - what RHS was Bennett being overlooked for? Bennett was drafted as a C and LW was his next strongest position. There's nothing in GG's system that asks for a RHS to be on right wing. He used LHS on right wing on his top two lines.

On D handedness was not about shots. It's about puck acceptance and passing in the D zone. The defenceman doesn't have to turn backwards to move up ice after receiving the puck on the boards. Brodie wasn't a shooter even when he played right side with Gio. The only argument you can make is that he's a one in a hundred guy who can accept a puck and pass better on the backhand. Or that he plays better beside an all star defenceman. But then, who doesn't?

[Travis Munroe]

Anyone worried about his progression, ask yourself who really did show progression under GG?

Ferland? no... he was the only real option for a top line spot and while I think he is a key piece moving forward, Bennett would have had the same numbers on that top line.

Hamilton? no... he would have ran away with the defensive scoring race had coaching not held him back

Hamonic and Brodie no doubt regressed under GG

Jankowski was nothing beyond average outside of a few games.

Backlund had one of his worst years ever scoring and a career-worst +/-

Frolik might be the biggest regression this past year based on stats

Johnhy has had career worst +/- and goal total under GG. Yes, he had a career-high in assists but I don't think that is the player that we have in #13... he has the ability to be out there winning games as he did prior to the GG experiment.

Monahan is tough to assess given the injuries and not knowing when they were hurting him. I know people were ragging on him but for the sake of this argument, I can't say he had a down or up year. The stats would indicate a pretty average year.

Brouwers career came to a halt when he joined the GG system... tough to criticize on this one as that just may be Brouwer but the stats paint him regressing under GG


It would appear that Sam is an easy target given where he was drafted but an 18g 18a rookie season followed by 2 poor seasons under a coach who had a large part of his roster regress is not when you sell out on the guy. Let's bring a coach in who builds a plan to his player's strengths and not a guy with a predetermined gameplan.

[pacde]

Bennett is one of the flames that can play with grit and has the potential to play heavy game. We need more Bennett's on this team, not less