Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[StickMan]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Imagine that. How many of these costs are controlled by the government and how many are controlled by corporations that are profiting off higher prices?



Let’s see some sources, not saying I don’t believe you because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and don’t see any reason why any sane person would make something up on the internet but I know that some people might not share my optimistic outlook and I’m worried they might think you’re just pulling stuff out of your ass then passing it off as facts. Trying to help



How can the industry be saving us if it is crippled? Also have you ran the numbers on the overall impact the energy industry is having on Canada? Does the amount of additional tax revenue offset the additional cost paid by Canadians for gas, heat, etc? How do those figures compare to the profits of the “crippled” energy corporations? Most importantly, how is PP going to fix any of this?

The carbon tax and fuel standard tax etc. increases the cost of fuel and thus food/housing and pretty much everything that gets transported, and it does nothing to prevent global emissions.

First 2 sources that show up on Google regarding recent government hiring:

Pandemic-hiring-boom-federal-government-added-nearly-20000-workers-in-a-single-year

Canada’s ‘roaring’ recovery is not as robust as it seems

"Much of Canada’s post-pandemic jobs recovery—indeed, nearly 85 percent since February 2020—has actually been concentrated in the public sector."

Could you imagine how prosperous Canada would be if we had pipelines running east to west and no restrictions on getting our product to world markets? How is the current situation not crippled? We pretty much have one customer south of the border and our eastern provinces import dictator oil. Like what kind of question is that? We have c48 and c69 preventing tankers and pipelines and really any large projects (has there been any large projects of any kind approved since? Investment in Canada has dried up under Trudeau).

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by StickMan

Could you imagine how prosperous Canada would be if we had pipelines running east to west and no restrictions on getting our product to world markets? How is the current situation not crippled? We pretty much have one customer south of the border and our eastern provinces import dictator oil. Like what kind of question is that?

Sounds like an NEP endorsement.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by StickMan

The carbon tax and fuel standard tax etc. increases the cost of fuel and thus food/housing and pretty much everything that gets transported, and it does nothing to prevent global emissions.

First 2 sources that show up on Google regarding recent government hiring:

Pandemic-hiring-boom-federal-government-added-nearly-20000-workers-in-a-single-year

Canada’s ‘roaring’ recovery is not as robust as it seems

"Much of Canada’s post-pandemic jobs recovery—indeed, nearly 85 percent since February 2020—has actually been concentrated in the public sector."

Could you imagine how prosperous Canada would be if we had pipelines running east to west and no restrictions on getting our product to world markets? How is the current situation not crippled? We pretty much have one customer south of the border and our eastern provinces import dictator oil. Like what kind of question is that? We have c48 and c69 preventing tankers and pipelines and really any large projects (has there been any large projects of any kind approved since? Investment in Canada has dried up under Trudeau).

Quick question.
How many pipelines got built when we had conservatives governments in Alberta and Ottawa (aka the Harper years)?

Now how many got approved/kicked off, that are currently under construction, while we had an NDP government in Alberta and a Liberals in Ottawa?

I'll wait while you run those numbers.

Also, I assume ACTUALLY getting pipelines built, rather than paying lip service to doing it while not actually doing it, is included in your list of things Turdeau has done to destroy the country?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by StickMan

The carbon tax and fuel standard tax etc. increases the cost of fuel and thus food/housing and pretty much everything that gets transported, and it does nothing to prevent global emissions.

The UCP cut the fuel tax in Alberta and consumers were gouged by the industry, but you’re saying taxes are the reason why prices are so high?

First 2 sources that show up on Google regarding recent government hiring:

Pandemic-hiring-boom-federal-government-added-nearly-20000-workers-in-a-single-year

Canada’s ‘roaring’ recovery is not as robust as it seems

"Much of Canada’s post-pandemic jobs recovery—indeed, nearly 85 percent since February 2020—has actually been concentrated in the public sector."

Where does any of this back up your claim that unemployment is only low because of potentially unsustainable public sector jobs?

Did you think putting forward an article that shows public sector jobs, which includes public healthcare workers, increased during a pandemic was going to be a convincing enough argument on its own?

Could you imagine how prosperous Canada would be if we had pipelines running east to west and no restrictions on getting our product to world markets? How is the current situation not crippled? We pretty much have one customer south of the border and our eastern provinces import dictator oil. Like what kind of question is that? We have c48 and c69 preventing tankers and pipelines and really any large projects (has there been any large projects of any kind approved since? Investment in Canada has dried up under Trudeau).

I’m still waiting for you to explain how the industry is crippled, or at least elaborate on how you define the word crippled. You yourself said the industry was “saving us”, how is that possible if it is crippled?

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Quick question.
How many pipelines got built when we had conservatives governments in Alberta and Ottawa (aka the Harper years)?

Now how many got approved/kicked off, that are currently under construction, while we had an NDP government in Alberta and a Liberals in Ottawa?

I'll wait while you run those numbers.

Also, I assume ACTUALLY getting pipelines built, rather than paying lip service to doing it while not actually doing it, is included in your list of things Turdeau has done to destroy the country?

Careful with this Harper gets more credit for Transmountain then Justin.


Without Harper there is no Jasper section, with no Jasper section, I doubt it gets built. I also don't think Harper would of dropped the ball and had to buy it like Justin did, but who knows, maybe I am over estimating his authority to get it approved.

Line 3 replacement which was bringing up capacity back to the old limits definitely was planned under Harper (and I think approved, I can't recall)

That said, I don't Harper did a good job on the pipeline portfolio at all -I do think they both suck but I give him the slide edge over Justin.


Want to talk supporting AB oil and gas? Point out Justin's investment in cleaning up our wells. That was literal billions of dollars poured into AB oil and gas from the Liberals.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Mull

Careful with this Harper gets more credit for Transmountain then Justin.


Without Harper there is no Jasper section, with no Jasper section, I doubt it gets built. I also don't think Harper would of dropped the ball and had to buy it like Justin did, but who knows, maybe I am over estimating his authority to get it approved.

Line 3 replacement which was bringing up capacity back to the old limits definitely was planned under Harper (and I think approved, I can't recall)

That said, I don't Harper did a good job on the pipeline portfolio at all -I do think they both suck but I give him the slide edge over Justin.


Want to talk supporting AB oil and gas? Point out Justin's investment in cleaning up our wells. That was literal billions of dollars poured into AB oil and gas from the Liberals.

Transmountain: Final approval was under Trudeau. Also buying it was the only way to make sure it got done. Anyone who wants to split credit on getting the project approved (which if JT is so anti Alberta, why did it get approved under his government?), has to admit that Trudeau made the hard decision and ponied up to ACTUALLY get it done

Line 3 replacement also received final approval under JT.

Anyone who wants to push the narrative that JT is so hostile to the Alberta oil and gas sector needs to answer why it is that more oil egress has been approved/actually started construction under JT than Harper.

You also make a great point about the well clean up. That was a direct subsidy for oil and gas companies during a significant downturn, clearly something only an anti Alberta zealot would do.

Finally, let's not forget that the whole reason cabinet can have final say on these projects is because the Harper government changed the rules to make it so.
It was a Conservative government that created the mechanism that gives JT the power to kill projects.

A lot of people really need to examine their belief that Conservative governments are better for the Alberta economy/have Alberta's interests in mind, because it's AT BEST a wash.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Transmountain: Final approval was under Trudeau. Also buying it was the only way to make sure it got done. Anyone who wants to split credit on getting the project approved (which if JT is so anti Alberta, why did it get approved under his government?), has to admit that Trudeau made the hard decision and ponied up to ACTUALLY get it done

Line 3 replacement also received final approval under JT.

Anyone who wants to push the narrative that JT is so hostile to the Alberta oil and gas sector needs to answer why it is that more oil egress has been approved/actually started construction under JT than Harper.

You also make a great point about the well clean up. That was a direct subsidy for oil and gas companies during a significant downturn, clearly something only an anti Alberta zealot would do.

TM final approval was due to timing to be under Justin, can't fix that - and I stand by he did it the crappiest way possible. Sorry, I don't give him much credit on that one other then its proof he isn't hostile to Alberta oil - which isn't worth any credit for a PM of Canada


For that reason, and my previous listed reasons I still give Harper the edge in pipelines.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Quick question.
How many pipelines got built when we had conservatives governments in Alberta and Ottawa (aka the Harper years)?

We had the Keystone Phase 1 pipeline and Enbridge Line 67 built and the reversal of Line 9 during the Harper years (adding more than 1.5M barrels/day of capacity), as well as TMX, Northern Gateway and Energy East as options.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by accord1999

We had the Keystone Phase 1 pipeline and Enbridge Line 67 built and the reversal of Line 9 during the Harper years (adding more than 1.5M barrels/day of capacity), as well as TMX, Northern Gateway and Energy East as options.

Fair enough, but if the argument is that Harper was responsible for Line 3 replacement and Trans mountain because the routes were all planned under his watch and JT just approved them, then we'll need to give Keystone Phase 1 credit to Paul Martin.

Line 67, I don't have the exact timeline on that, so sure let's give it to Harper, it was kicked off for construction late enough into his tenure that I'll assume it was planned during as well.
He can have Line 9 reversal as well, but that's not exactly the same as getting a new line built.

As for having TMX, Northern Gateway and EE as options, you can't really give someone credit for companies looking into routes for pipelines, especially when 2 are pipelines that got the ax because of a policy he put in (requirement for cabinet approval), and the other is literally being built by his successor (as in, bought and paid for).

My point wasn't that the Conservatives have done zero, my point is that it's at best a wash, and the narrative that the Liberals kill oil and gas while the Conservatives are the saviors of Alberta is complete balogna.

To be clear, my point about paying lip service and not actually building pipelines, was more directed at Kenney than Harper. Though I suppose throwing $1.6 billion into the burn barrel is more than just lip service.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by StickMan

I don't think the majority of Canadians like Trudeau or anything he does,

Even if this is correct, the majority of Canadians will not vote for PP.

The country isn't socially conservative, the majority don't agree with the occupation of Ottawa or the Coutts border, bitcoin or politicizing the Bank of Canada.


That and PP is just a completely unlikable man. Even more so than Trudeau.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...rvey-1.6541241

New research shows that three years after Quebec's secularism law — commonly known as Bill 21 — was adopted, religious minorities in the province are feeling increasingly alienated and hopeless.
"Religious minority communities are encountering — at levels that are disturbing — a reflection of disdain, hate, mistrust and aggression," Miriam Taylor, lead researcher and the director of publications and partnerships at the Association for Canadian Studies, told CBC in an interview.
"We even saw threats and physical violence," Taylor said.

Although all three religious minority groups surveyed said they've experienced negative impacts due to Bill 21, the effects are being most acutely felt by Muslims and, in particular, Muslim women.
"We saw severe social stigmatization of Muslim women, marginalization of Muslim women and very disturbing declines in their sense of well-being, their ability to fulfil their aspirations, sense of safety, but also hope for the future," Taylor said.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

To be clear, my point about paying lip service and not actually building pipelines, was more directed at Kenney than Harper. Though I suppose throwing $1.6 billion into the burn barrel is more than just lip service.

But Kenney, or any other Alberta Premier has less power to get pipelines built, especially for ones that need to cross provincial borders to go to a port and open up new markets.

He's really limited to words of encouragement, and throwing money around to show that Alberta has the companies' back and that they should stay in Alberta and not move their HQ to Houston or Dallas.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1557504204700270592

“This is the best way to end the pandemic,” Trudeau’s intergovernmental affairs minister and political fixer Dominic LeBlanc said at the time.

Yet when asked directly under cross examination if anyone from the prime minister’s office, the health minister’s office or the transport minister’s office had sought her advice on the mandates, Dr. Celia Lourenco, the woman who authorized the vaccines for use in Canada said no.

[GGG]

Why the the person who authorized the use of vaccines in Canada be the person to ask about travel mandates?

The second part of the article where health Canada when asked did not provide support is more concerning.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why the the person who authorized the use of vaccines in Canada be the person to ask about travel mandates?

The second part of the article where health Canada when asked did not provide support is more concerning.

Without actually looking through the court records, it’s not that concerning. That the general benefits of vaccination apply equally to being confined in transport as they do everywhere else should be shocking to basically no one, shouldn’t it?

Lilley is jumping to conclusions on both points, as nothing he’s quoted or mentioned supports those conclusions.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by GGG

Why the the person who authorized the use of vaccines in Canada be the person to ask about travel mandates?

The second part of the article where health Canada when asked did not provide support is more concerning.

A lot of countries had mandates of some kind. Maybe ours went on a little too long, but none of this is surprising. No matter what they did Lilley would be finding a way to try and twist this, that's his entire schtick.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

True, voter turnout could certainly have an impact. PP's best hope is a boring campaign. His supporters will still turn out, and Liberals will stay home. But if PP comes out guns blazing, expect a lot of mobilizing the vote on the left. Then it is anyone's guess.

Liberals should spend money this fall letting folks know what PP thinks. It will hurt them in rural Alberta as PP is too liberal for that part of the country. It will help them East of Winnipeg as it would be a political version of stranger things and quite informative for folks.

[Mull]

There are zero political points hitting Justin on vaccine mandates..... aside from driving the hate voters to the polls in higher numbers

Those pissed never would vote for him.

I could give a rats ass if someone who didn't get a vaccine couldn't travel, and don't really care too much if it ends up it was a political reason given at the time, there were health reasons as well.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Yoho

https://twitter.com/user/status/1557504204700270592

“This is the best way to end the pandemic,” Trudeau’s intergovernmental affairs minister and political fixer Dominic LeBlanc said at the time.

Yet when asked directly under cross examination if anyone from the prime minister’s office, the health minister’s office or the transport minister’s office had sought her advice on the mandates, Dr. Celia Lourenco, the woman who authorized the vaccines for use in Canada said no.

Turns out that what Brian Lilley and Rupa Subramanya are reporting may not be true. Which is likely why it's not being picked up by other media.

Rupa provided no links to the documents or proof. Others have looked at the documents and are saying she is incorrect in her statement, including the doctor of one of the studies she cited.

The editor of press progress Luke LeBrun, contacted that doctor and tweeted out his response to her story. Doesn't seem like she's responded in any way.

[V]

Anyone who thinks an election is imminent hasn’t looked at JT’s hair. That’s gonna have to grow in before he hits the campaign trail.