2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Virtanen looking like an early bet for "mistake of the off-season" for whichever team gets him.

I think a Virtanen-Jankowski swap makes a lot of sense.

Both guys likely sign 1 year deals for less than their QO and both get fresh starts. Janko has been a 0.3 ppg player over his 208 game career and Virtanen 0.34 over his 297 game career.

Weisbroad loves him some Janko so it always felt inevitable they would be reunited. Virtanen played his junior here and is a big body right shot so fills a
need here.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hhhmmmmmm. That doesn't seem right to me...

Anaheim: Ryan Getzlaf, drafted #15
Arizona: Derek Stepan, drafted #51
Buffalo: Jack Eichel, drafted #2
Boston: Patrice Bergeron, drafted #45
Calgary: Sean Monahan, drafted #6
Carolina: Sebastian Aho, drafted #35
Colorado: Nathan MacKinnon, drafted #1
Columbus: Jean Luc Dupios, drafted #3
Dallas: Tyler Seguin, drafted #2
Detroit: Dylan Larkin, drafted #15
Edmonton: Connor McDavid, drafted #1
Florida: Sasha Barkov, drafted #2
Las Vegas: William Karlsson, drafted #53
LA: Anze Kopitar, drafted #11
Minnesota: Marcus Johansson, drafted #24
Montreal: Phillip Danault, drafted #26
Nashville: Ryan Johansen, drafted #4
New Jersey: Nico Hischier, drafted #1
NYI: Matthew Barzal, drafted #16
NYR: Mike Zibanejad, drafted #6
Ottawa: Colin White, drafted #22
Philadelphia: Sean Couturier, drafted #8
Pittsburgh: Sidney Crosby, drafted #1
San Jose: Logan Couture, drafted #9
St Louis: Ryan O'Reilly, drafted #33
Tampa: Brayden Point, drafted #79
Toronto: John Tavares, drafted #1
Vancouver: Elias Pettersson, drafted #5
Washington: Nicholas Backstrom, drafted #4
Winnipeg: Mark Scheiffele, drafted #7

There are eight centres on that list who were drafted in the top-two of their draft classes. Now, of course there is a lot of poor players on this list—players that no one would classify as a top-line centre. But there are still plenty of elite-level top centres in the mix who also did not even crack the top-five. Patrice Bergeron, Sebastian Aho, Ryan Getzlaf, Brayden Point, Matt Barzel, Ryan O'Reilly, Anze Kopitar, Mike Zibanejad, Sean Cotourier, Logan Couture, and Mark Scheifele are (or were) all elite-level top-line centres who were drafted outside of the top-five. It definitely can happen, and it would seem to happen with some frequency.

Is there some reason you don’t like Toews, drafted 3rd.


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[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think a Virtanen-Jankowski swap makes a lot of sense.

Both guys likely sign 1 year deals for less than their QO and both get fresh starts. Janko has been a 0.3 ppg player over his 208 game career and Virtanen 0.34 over his 297 game career.

Weisbroad loves him some Janko so it always felt inevitable they would be reunited. Virtanen played his junior here and is a big body right shot so fills a
need here.

But if they are right that there is ( for some unknown reason) lots of interest in Virtanen, they will do a lot better than Janko. Plus I think they want to save cap, so likely a draft pick will be the return.


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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Is there some reason you don’t like Toews, drafted 3rd.


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Whoops. I missed him, thanks.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hhhmmmmmm. That doesn't seem right to me...

Doesn't seem right to me either, but I'm only playing by the rules that are being established in this thread and the feeling of the board right now. Sean Monahan is NOT a first line center if you listen to the rabble right now. So if you want to improve on the quality of player you're getting over Monahan, you need to draft #1 or #2, and do so in a year where there is a clear franchise center in the offering. The expectations are a McDavid, MacKinnon, or Eichel, and you don't stumble into one of those outside the 1st or 2nd pick.

[Sandman]

Just think of the player Virtanen would be if he worked out and was actually in shape....

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I think a Virtanen-Jankowski swap makes a lot of sense.

Both guys likely sign 1 year deals for less than their QO and both get fresh starts. Janko has been a 0.3 ppg player over his 208 game career and Virtanen 0.34 over his 297 game career.

Weisbroad loves him some Janko so it always felt inevitable they would be reunited. Virtanen played his junior here and is a big body right shot so fills a
need here.

Sounds like their is some interest in Virtanen. Why would he sign for less when he could become a free agent if he is not qualified?

I also do not want him at his qualifying offer.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Just think of the player Virtanen would be if he worked out and was actually in shape....

My son bought a car from Virtanen's cousin last year, and it sure sounds like he cannot stand playing in Vancouver. Maybe a change of scenery would do him some good?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by New Era

And the only way to get a #1 center is to get a top two pick in most instances. Unless we suck in an epic way, and win the lottery, we're going to have to find other means to finding a #1 center. You're better off in trying to cherry pick one out of an organization that is trying to take advantage of a window or has expectations of success where they don't want to wait on the development curve.

Best bet is certainly 1 or 2, but there have been plenty from outside the top 10 (and plenty more #3-10); off the top of my head:

Point
Bergeron
Krejci
ROR
Kuznetsov
Getzlaf
Kopitar

It seems to be nearly impossible to find a top line centre outside the top 80 though. Superstar goalies, D, and wingers are all possible in the later rounds, but not C's. So...it's really encouraging that the Flames have picked 1 possible C in the top 80 in the last 5 years (Dubé).

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

My son bought a car from Virtanen's cousin last year, and it sure sounds like he cannot stand playing in Vancouver. Maybe a change of scenery would do him some good?

I wonder the same thing. Vancouver still has a relatively young dressing room-perhaps it would do him some good to have a change of scenery where the leadership comes from more places than the coaching staff, and there's more accountability.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Hhhmmmmmm. That doesn't seem right to me...

Anaheim: Ryan Getzlaf, drafted #15
Arizona: Derek Stepan, drafted #51
Buffalo: Jack Eichel, drafted #2
Boston: Patrice Bergeron, drafted #45
Calgary: Sean Monahan, drafted #6
Carolina: Sebastian Aho, drafted #35
Chicago: jonathan Toews, drafted #3
Colorado: Nathan MacKinnon, drafted #1
Columbus: Jean Luc Dubois, drafted #3
Dallas: Tyler Seguin, drafted #2
Detroit: Dylan Larkin, drafted #15
Edmonton: Connor McDavid, drafted #1
Florida: Sasha Barkov, drafted #2
Las Vegas: William Karlsson, drafted #53
LA: Anze Kopitar, drafted #11
Minnesota: Marcus Johansson, drafted #24
Montreal: Phillip Danault, drafted #26
Nashville: Ryan Johansen, drafted #4
New Jersey: Nico Hischier, drafted #1
NYI: Matthew Barzal, drafted #16
NYR: Mike Zibanejad, drafted #6
Ottawa: Colin White, drafted #22
Philadelphia: Sean Couturier, drafted #8
Pittsburgh: Sidney Crosby, drafted #1
San Jose: Logan Couture, drafted #9
St Louis: Ryan O'Reilly, drafted #33
Tampa: Brayden Point, drafted #79
Toronto: John Tavares, drafted #1
Vancouver: Elias Pettersson, drafted #5
Washington: Nicholas Backstrom, drafted #4
Winnipeg: Mark Scheiffele, drafted #7

There are eight centres on that list who were drafted in the top-two of their draft classes. Now, of course there is a lot of poor players on this list—players that no one would classify as a top-line centre. But there are still plenty of elite-level top centres in the mix who also did not even crack the top-five. Patrice Bergeron, Sebastian Aho, Ryan Getzlaf, Brayden Point, Matt Barzel, Ryan O'Reilly, Anze Kopitar, Mike Zibanejad, Sean Cotourier, Logan Couture, and Mark Scheifele are (or were) all elite-level top-line centres who were drafted outside of the top-five. It definitely can happen, and it would seem to happen with some frequency.

I do this all the time.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

My son bought a car from Virtanen's cousin last year, and it sure sounds like he cannot stand playing in Vancouver. Maybe a change of scenery would do him some good?

I believe that is correct. But boy is that some Orange Julius stuff.

[MikeMc]

Originally Posted by Sandman

I wonder the same thing. Vancouver still has a relatively young dressing room-perhaps it would do him some good to have a change of scenery where the leadership comes from more places than the coaching staff, and there's more accountability.

Are we saying there is more accountability in Calgary? I dunno about that.

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[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by MikeMc

Are we saying there is more accountability in Calgary? I dunno about that.

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A few months of the skittles diet and he'll be good to go.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Virtanen intrigues me, but I have no idea how much he signs for. He is Rene Bourque-ish to me - probably going to be a great 2nd liner for a few years, but mostly a third line guy for most of his career - IF he commits. If he doesn't, well... he will float around as a 4th liner for a while. If he REALLY commits and has fantastic on and off ice support - I bet he could really impress some people, even myself.


How much is that worth? I have no idea. Probably too much to make me feel good about him signing with the Flames.

[Mass_nerder]

Virtanen reminds me of Bennett; high pick who hasn't lived up to his promise, but still provides some utility in playing a hard-nosed style.
I think once Virtanen is decoupled from the expectations of his drafting team/fans, his value will be more apparent.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by MikeMc

Are we saying there is more accountability in Calgary? I dunno about that.

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I don't think anyone said that. What was said was that Virtanen may benefit from a change of scenery and possibly stronger veteran leadership SOMEWHERE.

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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I believe that is correct. But boy is that some Orange Julius stuff.

That's silly. You can't buy cars at Orange Julius.

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[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Mass_nerder

Virtanen reminds me of Bennett; high pick who hasn't lived up to his promise, but still provides some utility in playing a hard-nosed style.
I think once Virtanen is decoupled from the expectations of his drafting team/fans, his value will be more apparent.

Took a look at this as a comparison.


2018-2020:

Sam Bennett:
TOI: 1396:34
CF%: 51.92
SF%: 50.56
GF%: 48.11
xGF%: 52.87
SCF%: 53.35
HDCF%: 53.86
HDGF%: 50.85
Shooting % in 19/20: 9.8
Shooting % in 18/19: 11.3
Career Shooting %: 10.3


Jake Virtanen:
TOI: 1707:03
CF%: 48.31
SF%: 47.81
GF%: 46.09
xGF%: 44.88
HDCF%: 43.93
HDGF%: 43.84
Shooting % in 19/20: 12
Shooting % in 18/19: 9.74
Career Shooting %: 9.2


Any team acquiring Jake Virtanen is biting off a solid chunk of "bleh".

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I believe that is correct. But boy is that some Orange Julius stuff.

I always believe every word a car salesman tells me.