Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[cannon7]

Have we held a 21 year old too long? Is that even possible?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

One of the big things I have noticed is that he has changed the way he is playing. Remember the goal against Pittsburgh? Remember his fourth goal against Florida? He used to dangle and try stuff. He looks to me like he is being held back.

He scored 18 in his rookie year. The guy can play. He is just being misused.

I don't think anyone is holding him back or coaching him not to try stuff ... the team has guys trying stuff all over the ice.

He's a confidence issue kid who stops trying stuff when he's not feeling it.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Remember how Sutter has ignited Rob Niedermayer?

Niedermayer was a lot like Bennett - a top 5 pick, great physical package, lacks hockey sense and consistency. Sutter moved Special Nieds to the wing and completely reinvented the style that Niedermayer used to play and it worked wonders.

Rob Niedermayer was hot garbage in Calgary. His "resurgence" only happened in Anaheim because his role was greatly reduced.

Remember, we gave up Valri Bure AND Jason Weimer for him. Crazy.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't think anyone is holding him back or coaching him not to try stuff ... the team has guys trying stuff all over the ice.

He's a confidence issue kid who stops trying stuff when he's not feeling it.

Agreed. The power move goal coming out from the half boards earlier this season is unlikely being "held back" by the coaching staff. If anything this coaching staff is all about driving the puck to the net and causing chaos.

Bennett needs time and patience. He is so frustrating because we expect so much from the glimpses that he has shown and hi errors tend to lead to stupid penalties. His mindset is win every puck battle and it gets him into trouble when the defender gets away. We have also been extremely spoiled with Tkatchuck, which distorts our view of development time. 2 years on Backlund and Froliks wing would do Bennett a world of good, we will just need to see if the coaching staff, organization and fan base will put him in that position to really build confidence.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Agreed. The power move goal coming out from the half boards earlier this season is unlikely being "held back" by the coaching staff. If anything this coaching staff is all about driving the puck to the net and causing chaos.

Bennett needs time and patience. He is so frustrating because we expect so much from the glimpses that he has shown and hi errors tend to lead to stupid penalties. His mindset is win every puck battle and it gets him into trouble when the defender gets away. We have also been extremely spoiled with Tkatchuck, which distorts our view of development time. 2 years on Backlund and Froliks wing would do Bennett a world of good, we will just need to see if the coaching staff, organization and fan base will put him in that position to really build confidence.

I'd like to see Sam get some time with Tkachuk and Lomberg.....that line would cause some serious rectal discomfort .

I'd like to see Sam have the opportunity to stick on a line for a while though.....that I think would help Sam more than anything......no more bouncing around.

[Beninho]

Bennett needs more games like last game. He was moving the puck fast and was assertive on what he wanted to do. Wasn’t over thinking the game and played a simple aggressive game. He needs to use this game as a reference for how he should be playing, his game starts to fall off when he starts to hesitate and forgets to move his skates. I’ve been on the fence with bennett for a while, but I still believe there’s a very good player here who needs to start to realize the type of game he needs to play to to be successful. There is zero point in trading him right now as all the returns will not be worth it.

Bennett really does need to work on being stronger on his skates. He’s a better skater than Tkachuk but can’t make the same plays because he gets bumped over so easily. He should train with Tkachuk in the offseason as his game would really benefit from being able make plays along the boards like Tkachuk does.

[EVERLAST]

I think a little time with Gary Roberts in the offseason at Biosteel would do wonders for Sam and his agility/ ability to stay on his feet.

He'll be fine down the road . Just hope he doesn't get run out of town.

[LostCatalyst]

Lest we forget Bennett’s current line mates both were ahl call ups. It seems the line is more of a crash and bang style of play rather than highlight reel plays. Don’t get me wrong we’ve seen glimpses of those but more so board battles.

Problem is Bennett seems to be out of position in those battles which leads to a hook or trip when the opponent pulls away with the puck.

I agree he needs some more muscle if this is the style of Game we want him to play, but he also needs to stop getting angled out of plays.

[bubbsy]

First off, apologies for bumping an old thread, but i was a bit reluctant to open a new thread to discuss sam bennett, although a poll on "what to do with sam bennett" would likely provide some interesting insight on the fan base temperature on the kid at this point.

I would like to share my personal opinion on Bennett, and it starts with the fact that I do not think it would be wise to trade him. First, because I think there's more there than has been shown, and secondly, his value at this stage is so low, I dont think it would even be worth their while.

I like sam bennett, for a few reasons:
1) He's fast, and can skate with the puck
2) He's tenacious, and his boardplay ability has improved immensely this season
3) He's physical and can play with an edge

My main issues with Bennett:
1) Like many young players, he suffers from confidence issues, which create major swings in the quality of his play.
2) He is no where near ready confidence wise, and unfortunately NHL gameplay wise, to be able to drive his own line, be it from Center or playing the wing.
3) I think he's extremely concerned with offensive success, and likely the reason i find most of the dumb penalties he's taking aren't in the defensive zone, but trying to be overly aggresive in winning the puck back in the offensive/neutral zone.

One interesting stat that i overheard on the fan a few weeks back was that Sam Bennett (i can't find anything online to back this up) was second on the flames in high danger scoring chances. How he didn't have more to show for it definitely feels like it's a confidence issue for me..... If we see this trend continue, i suppose we can look at his raw skill (shooting, etc) and determine it's not NHL grade, but i don't think that's the problem.

Anyways, my real beef and reason for this post is the flames development in sam bennett and how they have chosen to invest in his development as the highest draft pick in franchise history.

Over his past 3 seasons, here are a list of his 5on5 most frequent linemates, and his season totals:
2017/2018: Jankowski, Hathaway, Jagr (GP: 82, PTS: 26, G: 11, A: 15)
2016/2017: Brouwer, Chaisson, Vesteeg (GP: 81, PTS: 26, G: 13, A: 13)
2015/2016: Backlund, Frolik (GP: 77, PTS: 36, G: 18, A: 18)

He's been put in a position to develop and drive a line by himself the last 2 years, with guys that are frankly barely NHLers at this stage of their careers.

People are quick to crap over his progress, especially compared to other forwards from that draft, but let's just peruse their linemates over the last 3 seasons for a second:

sam reinhart (15/16: ROR, E.Kane, McGinn, Eichel, 16/17: Eichel, M.Foligno, E.Kane, 17/18: ROR, Wilson, Poiliout)
leon draisatl: (15/16: Hall, Purcell, 16/17: McDavid, Maroon, 17/18: McDavid, Maroon)
william nylander: (15/16: played<25 games, 16/17: Mathews, Hyman, Kadri, Komaraov, 17/18: Mathews, Hyman)
nicholaj ehlers: (15/16: Shieffle, Wheeler, Perreault, Bumistrov, 16/17: Shieffle, Laine, Wheeler, Little, 17/18: Laine, Little)
(got this data from https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players)

I can't help but feel the flames have no idea how to handle prospects that just aren't successful/stars right out of the gate at the NHL level. Monahan, Gaudreau, tkachuk are the other top end prospects that the flames have, but each basically killed it almost immediately after starting in the NHL. Flames seem like they have no idea how to progress Bennett. So they are sheltering him by giving him 3rd line time, ok, but then playing him with NHL-grade 4th liners and then everyone getting disappointed in the point stats?

I LOVE the "well he should earn his ice time" rebuttal. I would even perhaps buy it if it weren't such a paradoxical concept with this coaching group. Let's play brodie/hamonic together ALL season, and not start a single game trying a different pairing, well because they need to learn to get better playing together so let's be patient. Or everyone's favourite, well the PP/PK need something more, let's throw brouwer out there to fix it.

this all leads to me really wanting the flames to take the following position come training camp. A top 6 role is bennett's to lose day 1 of camp. No, i'm not gifting him the spot, but he's starting there in camp with the hope that he runs with it.

It's no surprise that his game saw noticable jump when he was put on a line with Jagr, and then again when he was briefly put with Gaudreau. It was DEFINITELY not enough to excuse him from having a subpar season, even during those brief stints, but the flames need to some how do better to, for the lack of a better phrase, coddle their young talent, putting them in spots and roles that helps them build confidence.

If they "sven baertchi" the young guys who have an up and down beginning to their careers, then they can only hope for lottery top 5 picks, and the rare 4th round sleeper pick here and there to build out talent.....

[pepper24]

Bennett continues to decline since his rookie season. He'll be coming up in the last year of his 2 year "show-me" contract with a poor showing. Not hopeful that will change. Mediocre on the 3rd line as a winger and disaster as a center on same line. Top players get hurt near end of season and he didn't step up. Don't hold much hope but at same time not sure he has much trade value. Maybe can get traded for another reclamation project.

We're fortunate that Monahan and Thachuk have panned out as high picks. You cannot win them all.

[Hemi-Cuda]

At this point Bennett could end up being the biggest bust in Flames history, given that he was the highest draft pick they've ever had

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

At this point Bennett could end up being the biggest bust in Flames history, given that he was the highest draft pick they've ever had

Rico Fata? Daniel Tkaczuk? Brent Krahn?

I think in hindsight, it would've been better to trade down for Ehlers or Nylander but at this point, we might as well keep him and see if he develops. Unless, we can trade him for a really good return.

[Calgary4LIfe]

He was making strides and looking good under Hartley. He seemed to flatline under Gulutzan. I will wait to see what another coach does with him to get him going.

Also, it isn't like Bennett hasn't improved. He has gotten a lot stronger, and his defensive game has dramatically improved. He was completely lost defensively when he first arrived in the NHL, and now I classify him as a pretty decent defensive player for his age. His work along the boards and in 50/50 battles is just awesome, and he is pretty decent at faceoffs.

Offensively is where the disappointment lies, but once again, I would really like to see what a new coach does.

[Tyler]

Bennett can be the strongest, most in-shape player on the team next year.

None of that matter however, because he is an absolute bone-head and I'm convinced that you can't teach someone hockey smarts at this point in a career

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Rob Niedermayer was hot garbage in Calgary. His "resurgence" only happened in Anaheim because his role was greatly reduced.

Remember, we gave up Valri Bure AND Jason Weimer for him. Crazy.

I distinctly remember Sutter sayg that Niedermayer and Yelle had been the best players for the Flames since Sutter came over. I also remember Niedermayer's interview crediting Sutter to changing the way he played. However, since it was 15 years ago, the only thing I could dug out is this CP review mentioning that Yelle and Niedermayer had been excellent on the checking line

https://www.calgarypuck.com/archive/ReviewQ3_022103.htm

[Geeoff]

I think if he can work on his discipline and continue to grow defensively, having a player like Bennett scoring 25-30 points on the 3rd line isn't the worst thing in the world. Obviously, it's not the return you'd like on a 4th overall pick but every team can use depth scoring like that.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Bennett can be the strongest, most in-shape player on the team next year.

None of that matter however, because he is an absolute bone-head and I'm convinced that you can't teach someone hockey smarts at this point in a career

Sadly, that seems to be the case. It does make me wonder how with scouting becoming so sophisticated, that aspect of play still seems so hard to predict. Most of the high pick draft busts seem to be guys who can't process the NHL game, rather than lacking in any physical dimension. Maybe teams fall in love with the physical tools and just hope the mental part will fall into place.

[bubbsy]

He was a hair under a 0.5 pts/gm player in his first year with actual NHL level talent.

He's got worse linemates in the 2 seasons since that year....

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

First off, apologies for bumping an old thread, but i was a bit reluctant to open a new thread to discuss sam bennett, although a poll on "what to do with sam bennett" would likely provide some interesting insight on the fan base temperature on the kid at this point.

I would like to share my personal opinion on Bennett, and it starts with the fact that I do not think it would be wise to trade him. First, because I think there's more there than has been shown, and secondly, his value at this stage is so low, I dont think it would even be worth their while.

I like sam bennett, for a few reasons:
1) He's fast, and can skate with the puck
2) He's tenacious, and his boardplay ability has improved immensely this season
3) He's physical and can play with an edge

My main issues with Bennett:
1) Like many young players, he suffers from confidence issues, which create major swings in the quality of his play.
2) He is no where near ready confidence wise, and unfortunately NHL gameplay wise, to be able to drive his own line, be it from Center or playing the wing.
3) I think he's extremely concerned with offensive success, and likely the reason i find most of the dumb penalties he's taking aren't in the defensive zone, but trying to be overly aggresive in winning the puck back in the offensive/neutral zone.

One interesting stat that i overheard on the fan a few weeks back was that Sam Bennett (i can't find anything online to back this up) was second on the flames in high danger scoring chances. How he didn't have more to show for it definitely feels like it's a confidence issue for me..... If we see this trend continue, i suppose we can look at his raw skill (shooting, etc) and determine it's not NHL grade, but i don't think that's the problem.

Anyways, my real beef and reason for this post is the flames development in sam bennett and how they have chosen to invest in his development as the highest draft pick in franchise history.

Over his past 3 seasons, here are a list of his 5on5 most frequent linemates, and his season totals:
2017/2018: Jankowski, Hathaway, Jagr (GP: 82, PTS: 26, G: 11, A: 15)
2016/2017: Brouwer, Chaisson, Vesteeg (GP: 81, PTS: 26, G: 13, A: 13)
2015/2016: Backlund, Frolik (GP: 77, PTS: 36, G: 18, A: 18)

He's been put in a position to develop and drive a line by himself the last 2 years, with guys that are frankly barely NHLers at this stage of their careers.

People are quick to crap over his progress, especially compared to other forwards from that draft, but let's just peruse their linemates over the last 3 seasons for a second:

sam reinhart (15/16: ROR, E.Kane, McGinn, Eichel, 16/17: Eichel, M.Foligno, E.Kane, 17/18: ROR, Wilson, Poiliout)
leon draisatl: (15/16: Hall, Purcell, 16/17: McDavid, Maroon, 17/18: McDavid, Maroon)
william nylander: (15/16: played<25 games, 16/17: Mathews, Hyman, Kadri, Komaraov, 17/18: Mathews, Hyman)
nicholaj ehlers: (15/16: Shieffle, Wheeler, Perreault, Bumistrov, 16/17: Shieffle, Laine, Wheeler, Little, 17/18: Laine, Little)
(got this data from https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players)

I can't help but feel the flames have no idea how to handle prospects that just aren't successful/stars right out of the gate at the NHL level. Monahan, Gaudreau, tkachuk are the other top end prospects that the flames have, but each basically killed it almost immediately after starting in the NHL. Flames seem like they have no idea how to progress Bennett. So they are sheltering him by giving him 3rd line time, ok, but then playing him with NHL-grade 4th liners and then everyone getting disappointed in the point stats?

I LOVE the "well he should earn his ice time" rebuttal. I would even perhaps buy it if it weren't such a paradoxical concept with this coaching group. Let's play brodie/hamonic together ALL season, and not start a single game trying a different pairing, well because they need to learn to get better playing together so let's be patient. Or everyone's favourite, well the PP/PK need something more, let's throw brouwer out there to fix it.

this all leads to me really wanting the flames to take the following position come training camp. A top 6 role is bennett's to lose day 1 of camp. No, i'm not gifting him the spot, but he's starting there in camp with the hope that he runs with it.

It's no surprise that his game saw noticable jump when he was put on a line with Jagr, and then again when he was briefly put with Gaudreau. It was DEFINITELY not enough to excuse him from having a subpar season, even during those brief stints, but the flames need to some how do better to, for the lack of a better phrase, coddle their young talent, putting them in spots and roles that helps them build confidence.

If they "sven baertchi" the young guys who have an up and down beginning to their careers, then they can only hope for lottery top 5 picks, and the rare 4th round sleeper pick here and there to build out talent.....

I think this sums it up perfectly and might be the most well reasoned argument for what we should expect from Bennett in this entire thread

And before everyone says “4th overall draft picks should be able to drive the play regardless of their line mates” and not to belabour the whole GGs system sucks point which is slightly unrelated but Bennett has been forced into playing a role under this coach (for the majority, at least 2/3 of the past two seasons) where his primary purpose is to crash and bang and retrieve pucks.

I too want to see some growth and I am disappointed with his progress to date but there are a lot of players who don’t grow into good/excellent players until their draft +4/5/6/7 years. Yes bennett hasn’t lit up the league the way we all hoped but it is ridiculous to call him a bust or want him traded.

He looks a lot more like a young couturier, schenn (the good one) or backlund than he does like a Rico fata.

[SportsJunky]

I think we may need to adjust our expectations of this young man. I think he could be a Flame for a long, long time. Just not in the role we initially thought. It remains to be seen how his career plays out but I don’t have a huge problem if he becomes a career 3rd liner or an energy guy. Stanley Cup winning teams need those types of players too. It’s unfortunate that Calgary may have a 4th overall bust in him but that doesn’t mean that he can’t become a big part of this team’s identity for years to come.