Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Follow along here bingo.

This thread should've been dead, but you bumped it to post some Bennett stats, then it devolved to the point of suggesting this current fpqmes team had 4 hall of famers on it.

That's the homerism.

If you let a thread get long enough you can make it about anything you want.

Who has claimed bennett is a future hall of famer?

that is absurd...

Can you just relax and realize that some people don't share your overly negative opinion of Bennett, AND that the Bennett thread is probably a better place for Bennett talk than every other thread (as it was in september october)

This thread wouldn't get to 114 pages if there weren't at least a few differing opinions.

[CliffFletcher]

Bennett can't process the game at NHL speed. Not well enough to be an offensive threat at this level. And he has a weak shot.

He has useful skills - skating, hitting, can carry the puck and drive the net. But he's going to have to move on from his expectations of being a big scorer and reinvent himself. Model his game off a guy like Raffi Torres, who was never the player he was drafted to be (drafted #5 OA), but still carved out a role and played 13 seasons in the NHL.

That kind of dramatic change in expectations and outlook typically only happens after a player is traded from the team that drafted him.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Bennett can't process the game at NHL speed. Not well enough to be an offensive threat at this level. And he has a weak shot.

He has useful skills - skating, hitting, can carry the puck and drive the net. But he's going to have to move on from his expectations of being a big scorer and reinvent himself. Model his game off a guy like Raffi Torres, who was never the player he was drafted to be (drafted #5 OA), but still carved out a role and played 13 seasons in the NHL.

That kind of dramatic change in expectations and outlook typically only happens after a player is traded from the team that drafted him.

Gross

[Buff]

Flash, your negativity is concerning. It isn't healthy to be so negative.

[LWcrowfoot]

Originally Posted by Buff

Flash, your negativity is concerning. It isn't healthy to be so negative.

I've noticed any thread he's in becomes unreadable. Even the game threads. Just my opinion, perhaps he's others favourite poster.

[AustinL_NHL]

Flash is CP's 24/7, 365 days of the year Scrooge

[Strange Brew]

Well he does think Flames should trade all their draft picks and go all in on winning a cup this year so I don’t think you can call Flash negative all the time.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Negativity isn't necessarily the issue. Civility towards challenging opinions is.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Gross

As long as Bennett doesn't get a landing strip on his chin.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Follow along? Give it a rest man.

Nah, I really think you do. I'm clearly referencing the latest discussion about the hall of fame and not the hundreds of other posts in the thread. That's pretty clear.

I don't need a lesson in how to follow. I can easily go through the topic and find many examples of negativity, and baiting and you know it.

This is just you trying to make things personal. Why would you care to go through the thread to find examples of negativity and baiting? To justify homerism? Quid Pro Quo?

It's a long drawn out topic, I know that, ... I'm the one that suggested we need more topics and less monster threads a month back.

So then maybe you should've taken your own advice when you bumped this thread from extinction to post some positive bennett stats. You own the site, I don't think you'd get in trouble for starting too many threads.

But to label a discussion that calls a player a bust, that they should have already traded him, and they should cut their losses and move him as homerism is seriously missing the definition of the word.

See, this is why you should follow along, because clearly I was participating in that discussion. And then that discussion died. And then it was revived and I started participating again, and then the discussion transitioned to how many hall of famers this team has and is it as many or more than the 89 cup winning team.

I think it boils down to you assuming anyone not agreeing with you must be a homer. Not a good stance.

I don't think this at all. I think you try to make things personal with me, which is not something i'm interested in.

Originally Posted by Buff

Flash, your negativity is concerning. It isn't healthy to be so negative.

I think the Flames can win it all this year. I'm negative about bad players and positive about good ones. I'm even positive about some bad players. I'm even positive about BENNETT.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well he does think Flames should trade all their draft picks and go all in on winning a cup this year so I don’t think you can call Flash negative all the time.

Nah, that's me, super negative.

[SuperMatt18]

On Ice Corsi For / 60
65.06 (3rd on the team)

On Ice Shots For / 60
35.11 (2nd)

On Ice Scoring Chance For / 60
32.44 (2nd)

On Ice High Danger For / 60
14.31 (1st)

On Ice Shooting Percentage
6.64 (16th)

Indivudal Shots For / 60
6.82 (9th)

Individual Scoring Chance For / 60
9.15 (3rd)

Individual High Danger For / 60
5.32 (1st)

Individual Shooting Percentage
7.32 (9th)

I'd be more worried if Bennett didn't generate chances but he continues to generate chances and shots at a good rate when he's on the ice.

This is why we need to be patient and look at comparables. Let's look at two players traded this offseason in Domi and Lindholm.

Both guys that generated good shot quality and a lot of chances but a low shooting percentage made it seem like they didn't produce enough and then they were shipped off because they didn't score enough.

Then the puck started to go in for those players at Even Strength. Here are the even strength comparables for Bennett, Domi, & Lindholm.

Domi:
2015-2018: 8.0 Shooting Percentage
2018/2019: 22.9 Shooting Percentage

2015-2018: 9.2 On Ice Shooting Percentage
2018/2019: 13.2 On Ice Shooting Percentage

Lindholm:
2015-2018: 6.1 Shooting Percentage
2018/2019: 14.0 Shooting Percentage

2015-2018: 6.5 On Ice Shooting Percentage
2018/2019: 10.5 On Ice Shooting Percentage

Bennett:
2016-2019: 7.3 Individual Shooting Percentage
2016-2019: 6.1 On Ice Shooting Percentage

In this same time with Bennett only 173 forwards have taken 300 shots on goal. Bennett ranks 159 of that group with a 8.5% shooting percentage. Sure his shot isn't great but personally I think he could probably still improve it and turn that around to even average. The median shooting percentage is 11.8% for that group of 173 forwards - or the equivalent of 11 more goals for Bennett over the last three seasons.

Don't have to look far to see guys that have a couple years of bad shooting luck and then all of a sudden it turns around and people are shocked they can produce. At some point those plays like the tap in Bennett set Monahan up for the other night will go in and his numbers will look better.

[Bingo]

Dude my only point was a 114 page rage fest between groups that want to trade the guy at any return or hang on because he was the next coming of Jesus can't be labeled homerism.

Wasn't trying to be personal at all. I think you're taking what you think is personal too personally.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Dude my only point was a 114 page rage fest between groups that want to trade the guy at any return or hang on because he was the next coming of Jesus can't be labeled homerism.

I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I have no idea what you're talking about anymore.

What part of that was hard for you ... maybe I can help you out?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Nah, I really think you do. I'm clearly referencing the latest discussion about the hall of fame and not the hundreds of other posts in the thread. That's pretty clear.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Dude my only point was a 114 page rage fest between groups that want to trade the guy at any return or hang on because he was the next coming of Jesus can't be labeled homerism.

Wasn't trying to be personal at all. I think you're taking what you think is personal too personally.

Originally Posted by Bingo

What part of that was hard for you ... maybe I can help you out?

I don't know that you can.

[bubbsy]

As a Bennett advocate and preacher for patience, i am nearing my wits end with it.

When he's on, he's physical, with no real offense or goal scoring finish.

When he's not on, he basically becomes invisible.

I do feel he's had more good games than bad ones this season, but have given up hope that he could progress in a similar fashion as kadri did when moved down the lineup. Kadri is 10x more skilled than Bennett unfortunately.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This is why we need to be patient and look at comparables. Let's look at two players traded this offseason in Domi and Lindholm.

Both guys that generated good shot quality and a lot of chances but a low shooting percentage made it seem like they didn't produce enough and then they were shipped off because they didn't score enough..

First, I think calling Domi a player who couldn't produce enough is a bit of a revision to history. And by a bit, I mean completely. The guy came into the league as a 50+ point player on a team that didn't have much in the way of offensive producers. I mean they were still relying on Doan to be the guy by the time Domi started. And he was the forward scoring leader his rookie season. He was also traded for a younger player not far removed from being a 30-30 guy. It's not like they gave up on him for nothing.

Second, and far more concerning, is those players you listed also were traded before they exploded offensively. Who's to say that despite all of those fancy stats, that the main reason wasn't just a change of scenery? Mental, kick in the ass, better chemistry, whatever, I'd rather see players who had those fancy stats and jumped up offensively while still on the team they played for...

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

On Ice Shooting Percentage
6.64 (16th)

Individual Shooting Percentage
7.32 (9th)

That's interesting.

In a boil down world one could assume the lack of finish from his linemates are hurting him, as if it was the player those two numbers should be reversed.

Clearly it's not that simple.

But his most frequent linemates for the Flames this year (forwards)

5 on 5 shooting percentage ... out of 13 forwards
Backlund 12th
Tkachuk 5th
Neal 10th
Ryan 13th

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't know that you can.

Here ...

- Long topic
- Some pro Bennett
- Some anti Bennett
- Can't ignore half and label all as Homers

Good?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

First, I think calling Domi a player who couldn't produce enough is a bit of a revision to history. And by a bit, I mean completely. The guy came into the league as a 50+ point player on a team that didn't have much in the way of offensive producers. I mean they were still relying on Doan to be the guy by the time Domi started. And he was the forward scoring leader his rookie season. He was also traded for a younger player not far removed from being a 30-30 guy. It's not like they gave up on him for nothing.

Domi was more about goal scoring.

Had 9 goals each of the last two seasons, already exploded for 14 in 30 games this season.

Lindholm is a way better example for sure.