Minneapolis PD Suffocate Unarmed Black Man Who Later Dies in Hospital

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yeah what's to discuss from that dumb video? Guy kind of argues with police, kind of resists arrest, and he deserves to be slowly murdered by a negligent, violent, power-tripping cop? Sorry, didn't change my mind.

I think it enforces the narative of restructuring the police and providing more funding towards having people better qualified with deescalating situations like this with some sort of mental health degree. Either as a ride along with or actually require police officers to have standard for education in social areas rather than just a high school degree. Like having it as anrequirment for academys to teach these kind of courses like a college or university. I'm not saying they have to be phds or anything but some kind of schooling. I personally didn't see any deescalation of anysort.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Look, the cop is a piece of ####, and should be in prison. But the cops were polite and trying their best with the guy Flloyd *at the start*. He was clearly high AF and already complaining about breathing problems before he was on the ground. That's all the lawyer for this guy needs to make sure he won't be convicted of 2nd degree murder. He was careless in his actions as a cop and his ####ty training and terrible judgement led to the death of a man who was maybe guilty of using counterfeit cash, being high and driving, and resisting arrest. Those aren't crimes cops can kill people over, but good luck proving the intent. That's insane.

What are you talking about? Guy was having a panic attack. He was panicking that the cops were going to kill him, and look what happened. He was terrified. That's some pretty big victim blaming.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by peter12

You boiling the narrative down to your interpretation of some shaky body cam video completely misses the point.

The point is that police are growing increasingly militaristic, aggressive, and violent towards the population they are supposed to protect. Because of a bunch of bad policy going back to the 60s, plus a lot of institutional and systemic bias towards black people, that violence is disproportionately felt by the black population.

The antagonism of police towards civilians is the real cause for concern here. Racism is just one strand - albeit one of the biggest parts - of this increasingly concerning problem.

This. So much this.

America definitely still has a racism problem. It has reared its head since Obama was elected. However, with so many police incidents over these past few years, we have seen where officers of color even have problems. We have seen limited incidents of white people also getting pretty awful treatment. So while there certainly are plenty of racist police officers (and racist non police officers as well) I have always felt it was the combination of the two factors peter mentions.

Really aggressive policing/militarization colliding with historical and structural racism that caused black communities to interact with police a lot more. And I think that nuance is very important. Because it allows the conversation to shift a bit. We no longer have to ask the specific question of 'was Derek Chauvin racist' and instead examine the structural problems that have caused policing to impact minority communities in disproportionate ways.

That is a double edged sword unfortunately. Because while it is a big relief to not always have to try and evaluate individuals racist tendencies, instead you have to all of a sudden look at a lot of very large scale problems with the structure of America. And no one ever has the political guts to take those on.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

What are you talking about? Guy was having a panic attack. He was panicking that the cops were going to kill him, and look what happened. He was terrified. That's some pretty big victim blaming.

The guy was high on meth. If he had a panic attack cuz he had METH that's kind of his fault. I'll add the disclaimer here as well to preempt bad faith argument or attacks..

Just because he was driving high on meth doesn't mean he deserved to die. But resisting arrest high on meth is never a good starting point. But I'm sure that's also victim blaming.

Why can't this be a bad cop with bad training who excecised terrible judgment in restraining someone that led to their death? Send the cop to jail for manslaughter. Improve police training on non lethal holds, and try and do better? There's zero evidence this is a racially motivated attack or murder. Zero.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

The guy was high on meth. If he had a panic attack cuz he had METH that's kind of his fault. I'll add the disclaimer here as well to preempt bad faith argument or attacks..

Just because he was driving high on meth doesn't mean he deserved to die. But resisting arrest high on meth is never a good starting point. But I'm sure that's also victim blaming.

Why can't this be a bad cop with bad training who excecised terrible judgment in restraining someone that led to their death? Send the cop to jail for manslaughter. Improve police training on non lethal holds, and try and do better? There's zero evidence this is a racially motivated attack or murder. Zero.

Drugs were detected in his system, that doesn't mean he was high at the time. You are making a leap.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Drugs were detected in his system, that doesn't mean he was high at the time. You are making a leap.

Yes

That's the leap here.

[Fuzz]

As opposed to a guy panicking about being killed by the police getting killed by the police?

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

As opposed to a guy panicking about being killed by the police getting killed by the police?

No

That it was racism.

You know? The reason the US has had riots, looting, and violence in the streets?

Was the guy having a panic attack because he was afraid of the police? Or was he having a panic attack because he was afraid of the police... Because he was high as #### and had a long criminal history?

That's my thoughts on the new footage. I guess peoles minds aren't going to change and that's ok. Next will be the trial.

[TorqueDog]

The metabolites of methamphetamine can still be detected anywhere from 2-4 days after use. Cannabis is detectable in the body anywhere between 10 and 90 days depending on frequency of use.

Just because the metabolites of a substance is found does not mean the effects are currently active.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

The guy was high on meth. If he had a panic attack cuz he had METH that's kind of his fault. I'll add the disclaimer here as well to preempt bad faith argument or attacks..

Just because he was driving high on meth doesn't mean he deserved to die. But resisting arrest high on meth is never a good starting point. But I'm sure that's also victim blaming.

Why can't this be a bad cop with bad training who excecised terrible judgment in restraining someone that led to their death? Send the cop to jail for manslaughter. Improve police training on non lethal holds, and try and do better? There's zero evidence this is a racially motivated attack or murder. Zero.

Let's inject some facts into the mix here. Here's the drug screen from Floyd's autopsy.

Fentanyl 11 ng/mL2.
Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL3.
4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL4.
Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL5.
11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL;Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL6.
Cotinine positive.
Caffeine positive.

Here are the cutoffs to pass a drug test.

Drug Nanograms per Milliliter (ng/ml)

Marijuana metabolite - 15
Cocaine metabolite - 100
Opiates
Morphine - 2000
Codeine - 2000
6-acetylmorphine - 10

Phencyclidine (PCP) 25

Amphetamines
Amphetamine - 250
Methamphetamine - 250
MDMA - 250
MDA - 250
MDEA - 250

Drug detection times are also important, as they give us an idea of possible use. The longer the detection time and the smaller the amount means the drug was ingested further in the past.

Amphetamines - 1-2 days
Cocaine - 1-4 days
Methamphetamine - 1-4 days
Phencyclidine - 2-8 days
Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) - 1 day to five weeks.

The trace levels in Floyd's blood stream do not support he was high on anything. He was a drug user, but he had not used that day and was not high at the time of his death.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by New Era

The trace levels in Floyd's blood stream do not support he was high on anything. He was a drug user, but he had not used that day and was not high at the time of his death.

But it's so much easier to blame the victim as a meth head and write the whole thing off

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

No

That it was racism.

You know? The reason the US has had riots, looting, and violence in the streets?

Was the guy having a panic attack because he was afraid of the police? Or was he having a panic attack because he was afraid of the police... Because he was high as #### and had a long criminal history?

That's my thoughts on the new footage. I guess peoles minds aren't going to change and that's ok. Next will be the trial.

Victim blaming aside, calling racism both “a leap” and suggesting the racism in this one incidence has caused everything is pretty ignorant. This was the straw that broke the camels back, another Black man killed by police thanks to excessive force. It doesn’t matter if the cop was a racist, racism in the police is an issue, we’ve seen that, and it doesn’t matter if Floyd was or wasn’t high, or if he committed a crime two, three, five, ten years ago or whatever.

Most people aren’t ok with the police using excessive force to kill someone even if they were on METH or had a criminal history, and that’s why there have been protests (which you failed to mention), riots, looting, and violence. It’s not about the petty things you’re obsessing over, it’s about police killing another Black man that didn’t need to die.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Maybe you’re ok with police using excessive force and killing Black people. Maybe you even enjoy knowing another Black criminal drug user got the death sentence without trial, sure seems like it.

I really don't understand why these sorts of accusations are allowed here, but telling someone to go #### themselves gets you banned. This sort of thing is much more personal and abusive.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I really don't understand why these sorts of accusations are allowed here, but telling someone to go #### themselves gets you banned. This sort of thing is much more personal and abusive.

My understanding is that there is a report button on the lower left if you have concerns about a post. Certainly such an egregiously personal and abusive post like Pepsi’s deserves to be reviewed yes?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I really don't understand why these sorts of accusations are allowed here, but telling someone to go #### themselves gets you banned. This sort of thing is much more personal and abusive.

The moderation of personal attacks on this forum is baffling. If you swear at someone you get sanctioned, but if you suggest that someone is racist/sexist/sadist etc. it's cool. Can we fling around accusations that userX may well be a pedophile? Seems like it. But who knows.

[IrishSpring2013]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The moderation of personal attacks on this forum is baffling. If you swear at someone you get sanctioned, but if you suggest that someone is racist/sexist/sadist etc. it's cool. Can we fling around accusations that userX may well be a pedophile? Seems like it. But who knows.

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpo...postcount=4299
Why do you always ignore the posts that (easily) prove you wrong?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I really don't understand why these sorts of accusations are allowed here, but telling someone to go #### themselves gets you banned. This sort of thing is much more personal and abusive.

The person who was banned asked to be banned (or deleted) after posting the "go #### yourself" post. They weren't banned because of that post.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by getbak

The person who was banned asked to be banned (or deleted) after posting the "go #### yourself" post. They weren't banned because of that post.

I honestly don't know which poster you're talking about. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, just what I understand to be verboten. And yeah there's a report button, but I've done that enough times and not really ever seen anything come of it.

Anyway I don't want Pepsifree banned or anything of the sort, but I also think that if it's not just going to be a free for all on personal attacks, those sorts of things should be taken at least as seriously, and probably more so, than just swearing at someone.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Victim blaming aside, calling racism both “a leap” and suggesting the racism in this one incidence has caused everything is pretty ignorant. This was the straw that broke the camels back, another Black man killed by police thanks to excessive force. It doesn’t matter if the cop was a racist, racism in the police is an issue, we’ve seen that, and it doesn’t matter if Floyd was or wasn’t high, or if he committed a crime two, three, five, ten years ago or whatever.

Maybe you’re ok with police using excessive force and killing Black people. Maybe you even enjoy knowing another Black criminal drug user got the death sentence without trial, sure seems like it. Most people aren’t, and that’s why there have been protests (which you failed to mention), riots, looting, and violence. It’s not about the petty things you’re obsessing over, it’s about police killing another Black man that didn’t need to die.

This thread is so ####ed. Man, seriously, and I mean, and I don't care if I'm sinbinned or banned, #### you for writing this. For real.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I honestly don't know which poster you're talking about. I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, just what I understand to be verboten. And yeah there's a report button, but I've done that enough times and not really ever seen anything come of it.

Last week, someone posted "go #### yourself" to someone in a thread and then posted a thread asking to have their account deleted. The account was given a Lifetime Suspension and a bunch of people posted things complaining that something like that was worthy of a lifetime ban without realizing that it had been requested.

I assumed that's what you were referring to since it's the only time I can recall seeing that happen and it happened so recently.