Which proves you are talking without actually watching him play. Nylander scores from the dirty spots and in close quite often. He is also used on the PK because of his excellent hockey IQ and stick work.You are totally right though, we certainly cannot use a RH shot who has great speed burst, great agility, high hockey IQ, an absolute lethal and accurate shot, who plays a 200 foot game. We have those in bunches!
I've seen more than enough of Nylander. Watching Steelhead games is what got me turned on to McLeod. Nylander was underwhelming and McLeod stole his thunder in each game. What really cemented my view on Nylander was his play at internationals against the best of his peer group. He's great against the likes of the Swiss, then disappears against the big teams. I really don't give a damn about his awesome skill set if he doesn't have the ability to step it up when it counts. He plays smaller than he is, and that is not what the Flames need, no matter how much skill he has. They already have a collection of small players with skill. They need some bodies with size that can bang and get their nose dirty. That player isn't a Nylander.
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Well maybe this is all fate and the Flames moving back a spot was to set things up for the Calgary born kid coming home. I can see the Oilers and/or Canucks picking forwards so it's really coming together.
I've seen more than enough of Nylander. Watching Steelhead games is what got me turned on to McLeod. Nylander was underwhelming and McLeod stole his thunder in each game. What really cemented my view on Nylander was his play at internationals against the best of his peer group. He's great against the likes of the Swiss, then disappears against the big teams. I really don't give a damn about his awesome skill set if he doesn't have the ability to step it up when it counts. He plays smaller than he is, and that is not what the Flames need, no matter how much skill he has. They already have a collection of small players with skill. They need some bodies with size that can bang and get their nose dirty. That player isn't a Nylander.
Well, if what you say is true, then the Flames' scouts know it too. So I don't think you need to worry about them picking Nylander.
A 6'2" 214 lb d-man, that is a great puck mover and will use his body.
I feel like these top d-men tend to get over-criticized in their draft year. Happened with Jones, happened with Ekblad, and appears to be happening with Chychrun.
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I figure if all the top end forwards are gone, we should take the best defenseman. Historically, the first 1 or 2 d-men taken in a draft go on to have pretty decent careers (yes, I know there are exceptions - there always are exceptions). Will Juolevi be better than the other top d-men? No idea but, if I remember correctly, he's the biggest riser out of the three, so I went that way.
I've seen more than enough of Nylander. Watching Steelhead games is what got me turned on to McLeod. Nylander was underwhelming and McLeod stole his thunder in each game. What really cemented my view on Nylander was his play at internationals against the best of his peer group. He's great against the likes of the Swiss, then disappears against the big teams. I really don't give a damn about his awesome skill set if he doesn't have the ability to step it up when it counts. He plays smaller than he is, and that is not what the Flames need, no matter how much skill he has. They already have a collection of small players with skill. They need some bodies with size that can bang and get their nose dirty. That player isn't a Nylander.
That's not what the numbers say.
Here is Alexanders World Junior log.
Game 1: vs Swi - 4 Assists in a 8-3 win
Game 2: vs USA - 1 Goal in a 1-0 win
Game 3: vs Den - 1 Goal in a 5-0 win
Game 4: vs Can - 1 Goal, 1 Assist in a 5-1 win
Game 5: vs Svk - 1 Goal in a 6-0 win
Game 6: Semis vs Finland - no points. 2-1 loss. Laine, Puljujarvi also held pointless in this game
Game 7: Semi's loser matchup AKA Bronze medal game - pointless
Game 1: vs Lat - 1 Goal in a 4-3 Game-tying goal in dying seconds
Game 2: vs USA - 1 Assist in a 6-1 loss, 5 SOG
Game 3: vs Swi - 2 Goal, 4 Assists in a 8-1 win
Game 4: vs Rus - no points in a 5-1 win, 4 SOG, +2
Game 5: vs Svk - no points in a 7-2 win, 5 SOG, Even
Game 6: vs Can - 2 Assists in a 6-5 win, 7 SOG, Even
Game 7: vs Swe - Finals - 1 Assist in a 6-1 loss, 1 SOG, Even (Puljujarvi hat-trick) Safe to say his whole team didn't show up?
It's obvious you've done some stat watching yourself and his 2 biggest games are vs Swiss that's why you used it as an example. But you ignore his point total vs Canada, USA, Sweden. He's usually getting decent number of shots on net.
As far as I remember he was one of the best forwards at the World Juniors. From all accounts he struggled a bit at the U18. Which tournament would be a better measuring stick U18 or U20? He finished the season having played 92 games this year, compared to his season before when he played 82. So maybe he's getting tired.
Verdict? Nylander doesn't disappear on the big stage. All the qualities are there for him to be a top liner in the NHL, if the Flames can land him at #6, they better do it.
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I've seen more than enough of Nylander. Watching Steelhead games is what got me turned on to McLeod. Nylander was underwhelming and McLeod stole his thunder in each game. What really cemented my view on Nylander was his play at internationals against the best of his peer group. He's great against the likes of the Swiss, then disappears against the big teams. I really don't give a damn about his awesome skill set if he doesn't have the ability to step it up when it counts. He plays smaller than he is, and that is not what the Flames need, no matter how much skill he has. They already have a collection of small players with skill. They need some bodies with size that can bang and get their nose dirty. That player isn't a Nylander.
Funny that you say that because McLeod was terrible n that tournament.
Game 1: vs Swi - 4 Assists in a 8-3 win
Game 2: vs USA - 1 Goal in a 1-0 win
Game 3: vs Den - 1 Goal in a 5-0 win
Game 4: vs Can - 1 Goal, 1 Assist in a 5-1 win
Game 5: vs Svk - 1 Goal in a 6-0 win
Game 6: Semis vs Finland - no points. 2-1 loss. Laine, Puljujarvi also held pointless in this game
Game 7: Semi's loser matchup AKA Bronze medal game - pointless
Game 1: vs Lat - 1 Goal in a 4-3 Game-tying goal in dying seconds
Game 2: vs USA - 1 Assist in a 6-1 loss, 5 SOG
Game 3: vs Swi - 2 Goal, 4 Assists in a 8-1 win
Game 4: vs Rus - no points in a 5-1 win, 4 SOG, +2
Game 5: vs Svk - no points in a 7-2 win, 5 SOG, Even
Game 6: vs Can - 2 Assists in a 6-5 win, 7 SOG, Even
Game 7: vs Swe - Finals - 1 Assist in a 6-1 loss, 1 SOG, Even (Puljujarvi hat-trick) Safe to say his whole team didn't show up?
It's obvious you've done some stat watching yourself and his 2 biggest games are vs Swiss that's why you used it as an example. But you ignore his point total vs Canada, USA, Sweden. He's usually getting decent number of shots on net.
As far as I remember he was one of the best forwards at the World Juniors. From all accounts he struggled a bit at the U18. Which tournament would be a better measuring stick U18 or U20? He finished the season having played 92 games this year, compared to his season before when he played 82. So maybe he's getting tired.
Verdict? Nylander doesn't disappear on the big stage. All the qualities are there for him to be a top liner in the NHL, if the Flames can land him at #6, they better do it.
Even more funny is he is hyping McLeod who was not exactly a standout at the U18 either.
Interesting you point to that 89 team because even though they had some big and tough forwards, they also had 3 undersized and highly skilled wingers who drove the offense in Loob, Mullen and Fleury. Not to mention an undersized second line centre in Gilmour.
If the Flames feel Keller is a Patrick Kane or Gaudreau type player, they have to take him regardless of size. They can always fill the rest of the forward ranks with size to support the skill.
I remember Cherry remarking on the Flames roster of that time that they were all either road-runners or giants. Burke has made a similar comment, that it's okay to have smaller players, but you have to surround them with beef.
The problem is, it doesn't much help you play a physical or heavy game if that beef is all on the 3rd and 4th lines, and the 3rd pairing defence. You need size and power in the core, and in the lines that get the bulk of the ice time. The '89 Flames had McLellan, Paterson, and Niewendyk on the top two lines. At the time, those were big guys. Throw in Roberts (and the fact Gilmour and Mullen were both highly gritty players), and you had a team that could fight through checks and handle a rough game when its best players were on the ice.
So how can the Flames add size and a heavy game to their top two lines? They can trade or sign guys like Lucic and Okposo. But the price will be high. Very high. Or they can draft and develop them internally. Sure, you can take a few wild swings like the Hunter Smith pick. Low-odds gambles with later picks. Or you can draft for size with your high picks. That means putting a premium on guys like Logan Brown.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Nylander was one of the more visible forwards in the final against Finland, but that's really not saying much. With the skill he has and the level of defense in the U18 games, I was left very much unimpressed by his compete level. I felt he was shut down rather easily. I think in the NHL he'll be one of those guys that can help a team a lot in the regular season, but in the playoffs he needs to be at best your 4th or 5th go-to guy for points if you want to get anywhere.
Which is not to say he'd be a terrible pick for the Flames, but I don't think he's the guy we're going to pick unless he's the clear BPA. We need to get tougher, and Nylander is the opposite direction.
I think we're getting Dubois or Tkachuk if they're available or Chychrun if they're not.
Last edited by Itse; 05-02-2016 at 09:31 AM.
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Even more funny is he is hyping McLeod who was not exactly a standout at the U18 either.
You're picking the kid that is going to be the best NHL player in five years, not right now. You're also picking a player you hope will be able to play the type of game your team needs to compete. In the west that means a heavy, grinding, physical game. I don't see Nylander surviving in the west. If the Flames draft him I will be surprised. There may not be guys as talented as Nylander available, but there are guys that are better prospects available, especially based on the Flames needs.
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You're picking the kid that is going to be the best NHL player in five years, not right now. You're also picking a player you hope will be able to play the type of game your team needs to compete. In the west that means a heavy, grinding, physical game. I don't see Nylander surviving in the west. If the Flames draft him I will be surprised. There may not be guys as talented as Nylander available, but there are guys that are better prospects available, especially based on the Flames needs.
It's like our best player isn't Johnny Gaudreau...
Put Nylander on Bennett's wing and watch the magic happen.
So for those who keep claiming Nylander is undersized, how come you did not say the same thing about Sam Bennett in his draft year?
Because Sam Bennett has always played face-first, like a pit bull. Like Gallagher, his size ins't an issue because he falls into the 'it's not the size of the dog in the fight...' category.
Also, Bennett's size was never a concern because he was always projected to be about 6'1 190-200ish as an NHLer.
I don't think trying to compare Nylander to Bennett is a strategy that will get you far.
At #6, you simply don't pass up a highly skilled game changer in favour of a big for the sake of being big player. In fact, you never do that. The last thing I want right now is for this organization to go back to the Greg Nemisz/Kris Chucko/Eric Nystrom days.
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