I'm becoming a fair weather Flames fan. Am I alone?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I appear to be in the minority, but I still love the game of hockey even without the physical play. I would certainly love more physicality and even more authentic fighting, but I still love the game because of the athleticism and strategy.

I will never get sick of watching these big bulky dudes move around on ice using tiny blades all while having amazing speed and agility. I will never get sick of watching multiple players coordinate an attack in the zone where they all have to execute a plan that has a hundred moving pieces to it.

What I love about hockey is the speed of the game. For all the love football gets here in the states, I find it amazingly boring. I still watch, but find myself less and less interested every year. The pace of the game is terrible. With hockey, even though there are boring times (Dman waiting behind his own net for line change to finish) they pass much more quickly than other sports.

All those reasons are why I still turn on center ice at night to watch anything that is on including some random Panthers/Senators tilt that most people would find mind numbing.



Taking this a bit back on topic for a second in terms of fair weather fandom, I find that for me that actually ties in a lot with what people have been talking about in terms of getting older and having less time. When I was younger I had much more time to learn players from all the teams, to learn prospects, etc. While I still watch as many games as I can, I am much less informed and much less vested in the outcome due to those factors.

Football has one exciting event last 5 seconds and then a whole 10 minutes of advertisements, commercials and replay. Football really, REALLY needs to quicken the time before plays, turn-overs, punts and field goals.

Soccer is very much similar to hockey in that there's always action, except hockey has more offensive chances and "potential scoring events" than soccer. Sure, its possible a guy boots it from centrefield and beats the goalie, but all the 1-0 games suggest that you need 10 people to consecutively set-up the perfect passing play that only by sheer luck did someone actually score. So is it exciting that a player brings the ball up into the offensive zone? No, because usually its nothing.

Baseball is too slow. Pitch, miss, pitch, miss, pitch miss,...., fake steal, pitch, miss...., hit, catch, and repeat. The odd big catch and run is fun to watch, but there's like a 10:1 ratio of butt scratching events to potential scoring events.

And now on to my second favorite sport: basketball. Lots of scoring events. A lot of dangles with the ball, trick dunks, and sweet shots that manage to make it despite them being contested. But my God is basketball soft!! You so much as sneeze on an opponent, they stop all the action events and make you watch the lame free throw. Too many whistles and not enough contact. For a game that usually allows 150 to 200 baskets (both teams combined) from the biggest men on the planet, dear lord is it sissy and lame. I would absolutely love some PPE for the players and let them body check in the paint and allow pre-shot hand-slaps elsewhere, even if resulted in only 25-50 baskets each. Hockey physicality + basketball-sized men == A pretty sweet sport.

Hockey is by far the most entertaining sport due to handicap (special teams), speed, physicality, and number of action scoring chances without disruptions. But then the physicality is being diminished, and coaching has tightened up to reduce the exciting events. How many times has your heart stopped during a 5-on-3 against your team when the other team is hammering away, and your so relieved that they survived it. That's excitement!

How many times has your team hit the post to get you standing on your feet, and then they keep the pressure on with quality chances and you're standing the whole time waiting for that sweet goal? Even f they don't score, that 30 seconds of standing on your feet in anticipation is an exciting even. Goal scoring doesn't need to go up necessarily, but things like shot blocking and collapsing in front of the net needs to go down, because its those things that ruin exciting events.

Plus hockey has reduced its spontaneity. I remember Iginla flying down the wing and letting a slapper go from 20ft out and it somehow whizzed by the tender. You think its a nothing event, and then SURPRISE!! That's excitement. But so many goalies are such big butterfliers with .910+ percentages that only the most quality shots beat them. So you know every single shot from Gaudreau or Monahan from anywhere but the slot or perfect set-up is going to result in nothing. You become apathetic to what is defined as a "scoring chance event". It then becomes closer to soccer.

That's one thing I like about basketball is the spontaneity. Sometimes Steph Curry just drains it from 40ft away with a hand in his face. Or Westbrook drives to the crowded net with hands everywhere and somehow he does some backwards twisting somersault to get the ball in the basket. That's excitement.

[Weitz]

Hockey may have lots of "action" if you want to call it that. But there is little excitement in most games.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I appear to be in the minority, but I still love the game of hockey even without the physical play. I would certainly love more physicality and even more authentic fighting, but I still love the game because of the athleticism and strategy.

I will never get sick of watching these big bulky dudes move around on ice using tiny blades all while having amazing speed and agility. I will never get sick of watching multiple players coordinate an attack in the zone where they all have to execute a plan that has a hundred moving pieces to it.

What I love about hockey is the speed of the game. For all the love football gets here in the states, I find it amazingly boring. I still watch, but find myself less and less interested every year. The pace of the game is terrible. With hockey, even though there are boring times (Dman waiting behind his own net for line change to finish) they pass much more quickly than other sports.

All those reasons are why I still turn on center ice at night to watch anything that is on including some random Panthers/Senators tilt that most people would find mind numbing.



Taking this a bit back on topic for a second in terms of fair weather fandom, I find that for me that actually ties in a lot with what people have been talking about in terms of getting older and having less time. When I was younger I had much more time to learn players from all the teams, to learn prospects, etc. While I still watch as many games as I can, I am much less informed and much less vested in the outcome due to those factors.

You're not in the minority, this is just a thread where the few whose interest has waned can have their say.

[shermanator]

Well, since this was bumped I will give an update. I'm still a fair weather Flames fan.

A bunch of wins against bottom feeders doesn't do much to change the perception of the club to me right now. A broken up Iggy / Gio (according to posts in this thread, I didn't watch the Avs game Wed night) doesn't do anything to harm the game's image in my mind either.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

For the better part of the last month they have moved up the standings into a group of teams that are competing for the last two playoff spots for sure but when you look at the threads before the season started where many of us believed that we were a goaltender away from being a sure fire playoff team expectations have changed as we are just happy now they are in the mix.

I am happy they have improved over the first month of the season but I haven't fully bought into this team and I'm sure I'm not the only person. They have been rolled most of the time they face a team above them in the standings and there's still something off with the team offensively this season. They just have the look and feel of one of those perennial non-top five draft pick and not quite good enough to make the playoffs teams right now and that's probably the least exciting place an organization can be.

except the fact that many of their best players are very young...they are going in the right direction, just not there yet IMO

[MarkGio]

I think to all those people who are getting older and having kids, keep in mind your hockey watching has grown dated too.

The first time you drive a car as a kid is an intimidating and exciting event, but now you zone out and somehow make it home safely. I hate going on long drives nowadays, but when I was younger I didn't mind it.

Same thing with hockey. It's not like I won't get another chance to watch a game I've seen a thousand times before. Some of us watched so much hockey that we can tell when a goal is going to happen as it's being set-up, and are only surprised when a guy fans on an open net or somehow misses. That's less exciting than the first timing watching the sport unfold.

Plus it's a different social event these days. When I was younger guys would go to each other's place for beers and hockey. Now we just post about it on the GDT and update our Facebook status if our team wins the game.

[dino7c]

don't kid yourself...if you are posting on CP you are a pretty big fan

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dino7c

except the fact that many of their best players are very young...they are going in the right direction, just not there yet IMO

Hard to say really if they will ever become an elite team. A few years ago when the Avs were in the playoffs they appeared to be heading in the right direction and today they are a disaster. Every year there's a team like the Avalanche, Flames, Panthers, etc that break a slump of being out of the playoffs but it's hard to climb that hump and get into the group of perennial playoff teams like the Penguins, Hawks, Blues, Ducks, Rangers, Capitals, Wild, Sharks, etc. The fact is that most of the teams make the playoffs annually means there's really only room for a few teams to get their foot in the door and stay there. Most teams in the Flames situation can never make that move which is why it's typically the same teams in the playoffs every year.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by dino7c

don't kid yourself...if you are posting on CP you are a pretty big fan

Being a big fan of the Flames, and feeling excitement over the gameplay, is not mutually inclusive.

[Hot_Flatus]

It's not just that I'm losing interest in the Flames, I'm losing interest in hockey in General to be quite honest.

Look no further than the World Junior tournament. This used to be one heck of an event hosted in smallish communities all over the world. It was exciting in its own right to see games in buildings packed to the rafters and entire towns coming out to support the event. Now these games are all played in large markets in front of sterile crowds until the medal rounds. Also consider the Olympic participation or lack thereof. The league likely won't attend the next games and doing so, regardless of business/economics sends a stinky message to fans, especially when the alternative is a watered down world hockey championship.

Hockey is becoming way too sanitized and overly corporate from the junior ranks all the way up to the pros. Sports can't always be about business/economics if you want to keep your dedicated fans truly happy and passionate about the game.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Plus hockey has reduced its spontaneity. I remember Iginla flying down the wing and letting a slapper go from 20ft out and it somehow whizzed by the tender. You think its a nothing event, and then SURPRISE!! That's excitement. But so many goalies are such big butterfliers with .910+ percentages that only the most quality shots beat them. So you know every single shot from Gaudreau or Monahan from anywhere but the slot or perfect set-up is going to result in nothing. You become apathetic to what is defined as a "scoring chance event". It then becomes closer to soccer.

That's one thing I like about basketball is the spontaneity. Sometimes Steph Curry just drains it from 40ft away with a hand in his face. Or Westbrook drives to the crowded net with hands everywhere and somehow he does some backwards twisting somersault to get the ball in the basket. That's excitement.

Excellent points on all sports... What do you think can be done to make hockey better then? Do we need smaller goalies that have more 'oops' moments? Less coaching? (thinking about analysts up in the suites watching the game armed with laptops and then passing info down to the assistant coaches earpieces)

Personally, I think hockey needs to open up scoring so that the mentality of the game is to score more than your opponents. Currently the mentality is to give up less goals than your opponent. I don't see it as semantics but as a philosophical way that the game is now played compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Not exactly sure on what changes need to be made, but I think rule modifications are needed to counter the bigger and better goalies compared to years past.

[Badgers Nose]

nvm

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Excellent points on all sports... What do you think can be done to make hockey better then? Do we need smaller goalies that have more 'oops' moments? Less coaching? (thinking about analysts up in the suites watching the game armed with laptops and then passing info down to the assistant coaches earpieces)

Personally, I think hockey needs to open up scoring so that the mentality of the game is to score more than your opponents. Currently the mentality is to give up less goals than your opponent. I don't see it as semantics but as a philosophical way that the game is now played compared to 20 or 30 years ago. Not exactly sure on what changes need to be made, but I think rule modifications are needed to counter the bigger and better goalies compared to years past.

You're absolutely right. Back in the day, a player would get a break away and it would be a 70/30 chance of beating a flopping goalie. Nowadays its the opposite, and most goalies just butterfly and scorpion to beat a breakaway. Its the same saves every time. Back in Ranford's day, he would do some weird karate kick that wouldn't work half the time, but when it did, my goodness was it cool to see. I've seen ever single lame butterfly save, and that's all we can expect going forward.

And how are most goals these days? Deflections. How exciting is a deflection? Sometimes I don't even know a player scored until the buzzer goes off and I'm more confused than anything. I'm like..."Uh, sweet, I think we scored". But in the old days a player would dangle before shooting a clean goal, which gave me some anticipation that a goal might happen, and then YEAH!!!

And how exciting is a deflection save. The goalie barely knows they saved it? They just butterfly and hope for the best. And if they save it, there's so many players surrounding the goalie that I didn't even catch the second and third rebound goals. Just a bunch of bodies in a huddle whacking their stikcs. So even if the goal scoring increases, its not as exciting as break-aways, flopping goalie saves, and clean slappers or wristers. Increasing the goal scoring in today's hockey is just more deflections, congestion in front, poorer butterfly saves, and more crowded net presence and confusion.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am not saying that is the model that the NHL should revert to, but take in most games now, and it is just... emotionless. Like everyone growing through the motions. Definitely not every game, but too many, even between 'rivals'. I think that is the piece missing.

Agreed. When I watch hockey today I see a bunch of highly skilled professionals doing their job against another group of highly skilled professionals. Doing it well. Doing it earnestly. But there's little emotion. The teams don't hate each other anymore.

The regular season anyway. The playoffs are still emotionally-charged and intense.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

And how are most goals these days? Deflections. How exciting is a deflection? Sometimes I don't even know a player scored until the buzzer goes off and I'm more confused than anything. I'm like..."Uh, sweet, I think we scored". But in the old days a player would dangle before shooting a clean goal, which gave me some anticipation that a goal might happen, and then YEAH!!!

Scoring off the rush is a thing of beauty. It lifts you out of your seat. Batting in a rebound or a deflection makes you happy, because your team scored. But it's not a wonderful thing in itself.

There's very little scoring off the rush today. That makes the game less exciting to watch.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

And how are most goals these days? Deflections. How exciting is a deflection?

exception:

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

exception:

But this is all coach's teach. "Get to the net". "Get to the dirty areas". "Get pucks on net". There's a reason why every player in the game collapses to the goalie and looks to tip in the point shots. It increases your chances of preventing the puck from entering the net with more bodies and fewer scoring looks are in the way. There's a purely defensive mindset engrained into the sport.

Sure, I like a clean deflection. It's good hand-eye coordination under speed. But that's how 1/3 of all goals are being scored. It's the same stuff each game.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Hard to say really if they will ever become an elite team. A few years ago when the Avs were in the playoffs they appeared to be heading in the right direction and today they are a disaster. Every year there's a team like the Avalanche, Flames, Panthers, etc that break a slump of being out of the playoffs but it's hard to climb that hump and get into the group of perennial playoff teams like the Penguins, Hawks, Blues, Ducks, Rangers, Capitals, Wild, Sharks, etc. The fact is that most of the teams make the playoffs annually means there's really only room for a few teams to get their foot in the door and stay there. Most teams in the Flames situation can never make that move which is why it's typically the same teams in the playoffs every year.

I agree we are at the point in this team's development where it's "debatable" on what will happen next. Are we on the brink of becoming a true perennial playoff contender, or are we going to consistently be in the rebuild cycle. Very fair to suggest continuous improvement due to our young core isn't a lock.

What still confuses me is why is that the factor that impacts whether you are losing interest or not? That's saying something very different then I find the hockey boring (which fair ball if you do) or something like that. The team is playing meaningful games, at least for the time being. So if that's the case, what's stopping you from enjoying it? I get the non meaningful games thing, I lose interest big time when the Flames games mean nothing because they are out of it, not afraid to admit that. I also think it's fair for you to say we don't know yet if this years Flames are about to crash and burn out. But tonight's and tomorrow's games, mean something and are huge big games. Why do you need to know that in a month from now the Flames will still be in the hunt for you to get into the games this weekend?

I'm not saying you are wrong, I can't say that, this is a purely opinion based conversation and you are very entitled to yours. I will admit though I'm confused by this sentiment of "I'm not sure if the team is good or not yet" preventing you from enjoying meaningful games in the present at the fullest, having a hard time relating. It almost sounds like what you are saying is that you don't want to get invested yet in case they crash and burn cause you don't want the heart break or stress of that? Is that the case? If so, I'd say that's what sport is about, and it's also what makes it so good when your team is actually a winner.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

You're absolutely right. Back in the day, a player would get a break away and it would be a 70/30 chance of beating a flopping goalie. Nowadays its the opposite, and most goalies just butterfly and scorpion to beat a breakaway. Its the same saves every time. Back in Ranford's day, he would do some weird karate kick that wouldn't work half the time, but when it did, my goodness was it cool to see. I've seen ever single lame butterfly save, and that's all we can expect going forward.

And how are most goals these days? Deflections. How exciting is a deflection? Sometimes I don't even know a player scored until the buzzer goes off and I'm more confused than anything. I'm like..."Uh, sweet, I think we scored". But in the old days a player would dangle before shooting a clean goal, which gave me some anticipation that a goal might happen, and then YEAH!!!

And how exciting is a deflection save. The goalie barely knows they saved it? They just butterfly and hope for the best. And if they save it, there's so many players surrounding the goalie that I didn't even catch the second and third rebound goals. Just a bunch of bodies in a huddle whacking their stikcs. So even if the goal scoring increases, its not as exciting as break-aways, flopping goalie saves, and clean slappers or wristers. Increasing the goal scoring in today's hockey is just more deflections, congestion in front, poorer butterfly saves, and more crowded net presence and confusion.

Agreed on all points. I won't drag us any further off topic and will just say that if we did have a more exciting game, then it would be easier to stay excited about a team and not be a fair weather fan.

[Finger Cookin]

I just find it easier to catch the highlights the next day. I think that speaks more to how poor my attention span is than anything else.