American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Man this place is actually the worst. Allowing children to get reasignment surgery is absolutely abuse and the parents should be jailed.

This place has turned into a far leftist echo chamber and it just keeps getting worse.

so a 16 or 17 year old cant decide what to do with their own body, the law incidently also seems to make birth control illegal as well

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

so a 16 or 17 year old cant decide what to do with their own body, the law incidently also seems to make birth control illegal as well

How would it make birth control illegal? That's not a surgery.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

so a 16 or 17 year old cant decide what to do with their own body, the law incidently also seems to make birth control illegal as well

No they can with parents permision, thus iy being the parents who are liable. Your second statement is beyond absurd and merits no discussion.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

How would it make birth control illegal? That's not a surgery.

the law makes the administration of supraphysiologic doses of estrogen illegal, that's basically the pill

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

No they can with parents permision, thus iy being the parents who are liable. Your second statement is beyond absurd and merits no discussion.

The age of majority in Texas is 18 so the 16 or 17 year old cannot decide a thing and if their parents give permission off to jail they go

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The age of majority in Texas is 18 so the 16 or 17 year old cannot decide a thing and if their parents give permission off to jail they go

No ####? Probably why parents shouldnt be giving children and teenagers permission to have their cocks turned inside out.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

No ####? Probably why parents shouldnt be giving children and teenagers permission to have their cocks turned inside out.

I adopted my son because at 8 it was obvious he was gay, and the kindly but profoundly Christian families that tend to adopt older kids are rarely good with these issues and I didnt want the lad back on my doorstep at 15, I have been entirely neutral, never expressing anything to him but my love regardless of who he is, now at 13 he calls himself Jade and goes to school in girls clothes and makeup which scares the crap out of me because the beating that would have brought down on a kid in the 70's when I went to school, she or he will decide for him/herself and I will support and love him or her, if she/he asked me now to go onto hormones I would support that, she/he is old enough to make that call.

Would I suggest it? no, my place is to be a loving parent and with that comes great influence that I need to keep to myself, I wish my son was straight and wasn't about to go through the stress and pain of being gay or transgender but she/he isnt and I will love him or her no matter what and walk whichever path we have to walk together.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Man this place is actually the worst. Allowing children to get reasignment surgery is absolutely abuse and the parents should be jailed.

This place has turned into a far leftist echo chamber and it just keeps getting worse.

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

No ####? Probably why parents shouldnt be giving children and teenagers permission to have their cocks turned inside out.

This is transphobic, hateful language. Please cut it out.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

No ####? Probably why parents shouldnt be giving children and teenagers permission to have their cocks turned inside out.

So at what age do you support gender reassignment surgery?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I consider myself a fairly liberal, to each their own kind of guy.

But I might have to side with Kipper_3434 on this.

Does a 16/17 year old really know their gender and/or sexuality at such a young age?

Clearly, Kipper_3434 was questioning, confused, or unsure of theirs at that age, and wouldn't have wanted a major realization to cement and bind them for the rest of their life only to have it change once they became an adult.

GGG, PepsiFree, or afc_wimbleton did you know your gender and/or sensuality at 17?

Spoiler!

I'm assuming green text is not needed here

[Krovikan]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I consider myself a fairly liberal, to each their own kind of guy.

But I might have to side with Kipper_3434 on this.

Does a 16/17 year old really know their gender and/or sexuality at such a young age?

Clearly, Kipper_3434 was questioning, confused, or unsure of theirs at that age, and wouldn't have wanted a major realization to cement and bind them for the rest of their life only to have it change once they became an adult.

GGG, PepsiFree, or afc_wimbleton did you know your gender and/or sensuality at 17?

Spoiler!

I'm assuming green text is not needed here

if someone knows their sexuality and gender at 17 is based on personal development, I know a friend who just realized he's pan sexual in his late 30s. For me personally, I definitely knew my sexuality and gender at 17, but that is my journey and not everyone will have the same journey.

With proper counselling and professional guidance, along with checks and balances, having gender reassignment at a younger age may prevent a lot of mental health issues. I definitely agree there should be an age that below is not allowed, but not sure 18 is the right age. I feel that age may be right for some people but wrong for others and that is where professional guidance in the individual circumstances.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I consider myself a fairly liberal, to each their own kind of guy.

But I might have to side with Kipper_3434 on this.

Does a 16/17 year old really know their gender and/or sexuality at such a young age?

Clearly, Kipper_3434 was questioning, confused, or unsure of theirs at that age, and wouldn't have wanted a major realization to cement and bind them for the rest of their life only to have it change once they became an adult.

GGG, PepsiFree, or afc_wimbleton did you know your gender and/or sensuality at 17?

Spoiler!

I'm assuming green text is not needed here

I actually don’t understand the concept of Gender or how one feels their Gender doesn’t fit them or the correlary that they feel that their gender does fit them. I am male but really that’s no different than I have brown hair or I am tall.

However my lack of understanding doesn’t change that those affected by gender dysmorphia have very poor health outcomes and providing treatments that improve outcomes is likely a good practice.

If I had to choose whether the state or the parents of the child get to make life altering decisions with the child I would choose the parents. I think this is a lot like 3rd trimester abortions. If they happened regularly they would be horrific but when you actually look into it it’s fairly rare and done with proper oversight and for good reason. So you can argue the boogeyman of lefty parents pushing their kids into surgeries they don’t want or you can trust parents are consulting with experts and making the best choices they can for high risk youth.

Doing nothing also binds a decision and the outcome could be death.

Apparently you needed green text

[Itse]

Originally Posted by GGG

I actually don’t understand the concept of Gender or how one feels their Gender doesn’t fit them or the correlary that they feel that their gender does fit them. I am male but really that’s no different than I have brown hair or I am tall.

There's a fairly thought experiment that has helped many people grasp personal experience of gender better.

Imagine that your consciousness is copied to a machine. It's self-conscious bunch of ones and zeroes somewhere in digital space that is a perfect copy of your consciousness.

Would that digital copy of you be male?

I would day yes, yes it would be, somehow. It's somewhat irrational, but it feels true. Even without body, I would still be male. My understanding of my gender does go beyond my body, even thought I'm mostly not aware if it.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Does a 16/17 year old really know their gender and/or sexuality at such a young age?

Please don't conflate gender identity with sexual orientation, or vice versa. They are two very different things and can have have many confusing outcomes. Gender identity is pretty much formed by time we hit four or five. We discover our feminine or masculine identity early on in our psychological development. Our identity is then only confused by the environment and forces around us. Sexual orientation develops later and is just based on the attraction to others. This can begin to happen before puberty, but is cemented into us around this time. You can be attracted to men, women, or both, and depending on your gender make you asexual, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or pansexual. You may identify as one gender, be another, but still have an attraction to the same gender you identify with, making you homosexual in the psychological sense, but heterosexual in the physical sense. Gender identity and sexuality are tough topics for people to understand, and then when you start to talk about sexual behavior, just clouds the topic that much more. What these discussions do expose are who wound a little too tight and have been brought up in an environment of ignorance and rigid binary orthodoxy.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This can begin to happen before puberty, but is cemented into us around this time.

Good post, however I take issue with the “cemented” part. It can certainly ebb, flow, develop, and cease over time.

[MRCboicgy]

Also, just want to add with several close friends who have transitioned and having seen the it from the front row, it's a long process before anyone gets the reassignment surgery. There's a shed ton of counseling and a million steps to go through.
Like really long.
Opposition often paints it as some kid coming out as trans, then a week later is under the knife. It reminds me of the "Drive-thru" abortions scare in like the 90's where, in order to show some type of moral turpitude, they make it seem like innocent people will be able to make bad decisions the 7-11.
Mr Garrison's storyline ain't happening.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Good post, however I take issue with the “cemented” part. It can certainly ebb, flow, develop, and cease over time.

Your sexuality doesn't ebb and flow. Your sexual appetite may, but your underlying sexuality does not. How we accept our sexuality, project our sexuality, or act on our sexuality, can and will change over time, but our sexuality is as hard wired as our gender identification.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Itse

There's a fairly thought experiment that has helped many people grasp personal experience of gender better.

Imagine that your consciousness is copied to a machine. It's self-conscious bunch of ones and zeroes somewhere in digital space that is a perfect copy of your consciousness.

Would that digital copy of you be male?

I would day yes, yes it would be, somehow. It's somewhat irrational, but it feels true. Even without body, I would still be male. My understanding of my gender does go beyond my body, even thought I'm mostly not aware if it.

I’d say it would be immaterial at least to me. I’d probably assume I was male only because I used to be male and people treated me as male but if this digital world my Avatar was female I don’t think it would cause me pain or feel like the body was not mine after a few months.

Most instances of people describing Gender appear to just be societal constructs.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by GGG

So at what age do you support gender reassignment surgery?

I think 16-17 is too young to have the ability to go under such procedures. I'm not sure what the process should be but giving a teenager that power could backfire on them. They do so much growing both physically and mentally that what they feel at 16 could be quite different at 20.

How many life altering decisions did you make at 16? I wouldn't have trusted my kids (or myself for that matter) to make that kind decision on their own at that age. If they were wanting to do this, I would have brought in professional help to help them make the best decision possible. I'm not saying I would be discouraging it.....just give them more tools to make a better informed decision.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GGG

I’d say it would be immaterial at least to me. I’d probably assume I was male only because I used to be male and people treated me as male but if this digital world my Avatar was female I don’t think it would cause me pain or feel like the body was not mine after a few months.

Most instances of people describing Gender appear to just be societal constructs.

This is one of the reasons transgenderism is controversial in feminist circles. Feminist theory long held that gender is a social construct. That patriarchal societies assigned behaviours and feelings to genders in order to confine them to roles. If we cast off those categories, if we stop assigning meaning to ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’, then we will cast off gender. In such a society, the notion of being misgendered would be nonsensical.