City of Victoria to remove statue of John A. Macdonald from the steps of City Hall

[TheIronMaiden]

Maybe it is because I am a rural Albertan but I have no problem removing statues of politicians. If there is one demographic not worth celebrating it is those scum. Especially those from the 19th century. That said statues are nice, so is public art. So I don't mind these things existing. Just the thought of any of the PM's we've had in the last two decades getting a statue makes me upset.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I can understand this sentiment, although I'm not sure I agree with it. But in that case, wouldn't the best thing to do be to move the statue somewhere else? Macdonald's an important historical figure, and as noted, all such figures likely held views we consider abhorrent. This "let's sanitize history" project some people seem to be on makes me uncomfortable... likely has something to do with its orthodox approach to everything.

I would prefer it moved and displayed as opposed to moved and put in storage. It is such a goofy statue with its placement anyways. It's not like it is even on a stone base or anything like that. Just dropped off at the door like it is still waiting to be installed.

https://imgur.com/a/UGG6ejo

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

It's also sort of a creepy design as it appears to be looking at everyone approaching the door, like he's a security guard.

At least if they do move it, it'll be super easy. Hell, put it somewhere in Stanley Park, or in the harbour somewhere. Problem solved.

[MelBridgeman]

Cool now let's remove statues of Canadian Feminist Heroes The Famous Five - who promoted eugenics, white supremacy attitudes and racism. Same logic? Fair is fair!

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Germans have had to live with Hitler and WWII and their kids have to go though education of WWII and they make no efforts to discount the Holocaust. Hiding from it benefits nobody.

Granted, I've only been to Berlin and Hamburg, but I don't really recall seeing any statues or symbols remaining from the Nazi years. I think the the Germans actually provide a very good example of how you can remember and educate your population on your country's historical atrocities without keeping monuments that lionize those who committed them.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

That doesn't seem like a fair comparison. Adolf Hitler and company don't really have the same sort of mixed legacy that MacDonald has... not really any shades of grey there, you might say...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Cool now let's remove statues of Canadian Feminist Heroes The Famous Five - who promoted eugenics, white supremacy attitudes and racism. Same logic? Fair is fair!

See that hypocrites? He got ya! Can't remove one symbol of a tainted historical figure unless you remove all of them. Them's the rules!

It's like I always tell my friends who are smokers and drinkers, unless you're willing to cut out both, you're a god damn hypocrite if you only cut out one.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

That doesn't seem like a fair comparison. Adolf Hitler and company don't really have the same sort of mixed legacy that MacDonald has... not really any shades of grey there, you might say...

The point was that removing statues or monuments on their own doesn't sanitize history so long as there's a coherent plan to replace them with some form of education.

On a side note, I have lived here for a decade now and I don't think I've ever even noticed that statue or what it was supposed to be when walking by City Hall.

[nik-]

Petition to change his name to MelllllllllllllBridgeman because we need to do something with all the L's he's racking up these past few days.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by rubecube

See that hypocrites? He got ya! Can't remove one symbol of a tainted historical figure unless you remove all of them. Them's the rules!

It's like I always tell my friends who are smokers and drinkers, unless you're willing to cut out both, you're a god damn hypocrite if you only cut out one.

Cool so is there a counter argument in that sarcasm? Do you have one?

[CliffFletcher]

Heritage Park only recently put up a big, expensive new building dedicated to the Famous Five, who advocated for the sterilization of 'simple-minded' young women, many of them Native.

Applying a moral purity test to people with complex legacies serves little purpose but to broadcast our own moral righteousness. People need to find a better way to feel good about themselves than conspicuously denouncing the impieties of prominent figures who died decades and centuries ago.

[PsYcNeT]

I gotta ask, how many people here have actively sought out more information about a statue in your home country?

I mean, I could see like on vacation in Europe and be like "who was this guy?" but you have to some sort of hyper-lameass to stop while powerwalking to the falafel place in downtown Victoria and go "huh, I know he was the first PM and he started the ball rolling on the murder and disenfranchisement of hundreds of thousands of people, but what else?" and then scroll on wikipedia while you scarf that pita.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People need to find a better way to feel good about themselves than conspicuously denouncing the impieties of prominent figures who died decades and centuries ago.

I don't disagree but in the great scheme of things I couldn't really give less of a crap if statues are taken down and buildings, roads, etc. have their names changed. If it makes people feel better, let 'em have it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Granted, I've only been to Berlin and Hamburg, but I don't really recall seeing any statues or symbols remaining from the Nazi years. I think the the Germans actually provide a very good example of how you can remember and educate your population on your country's historical atrocities without keeping monuments that lionize those who committed them.

Yeah, the Nazis built tonnes of massive buildings in downtown Berlin, and Luftwaffen HQ is the only one left. It is now the Bundesministerium der Finanzen.

[nik-]

To be fair, that's because Nazi architecture ####ing sucked.

What's with dictators and their desire for overly wide roadways lined by repetitive concrete blocks leading up to a gargantuan state building?

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The point was that removing statues or monuments on their own doesn't sanitize history so long as there's a coherent plan to replace them with some form of education.

On a side note, I have lived here for a decade now and I don't think I've ever even noticed that statue or what it was supposed to be when walking by City Hall.

I've been here for 10 months and walk by City Hall all the time and never once noticed it before.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yeah, the Nazis built tonnes of massive buildings in downtown Berlin, and Luftwaffen HQ is the only one left. It is now the Bundesministerium der Finanzen.

You mean they changed the name and people didn't magically forget that the Holocaust happened? Huh, what are the odds?

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Yeah, the Nazis built tonnes of massive buildings in downtown Berlin, and Luftwaffen HQ is the only one left. It is now the Bundesministerium der Finanzen.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

See that hypocrites? He got ya! Can't remove one symbol of a tainted historical figure unless you remove all of them. Them's the rules!

It's like I always tell my friends who are smokers and drinkers, unless you're willing to cut out both, you're a god damn hypocrite if you only cut out one.

It seems flippant, but why are they exempt from criticism?

You make it sound like John A. MacDonald went out exclusively to destroy Natives and as such he should be vilified when in reality he just did what he thought was prudent at the time.

Just like others.

Which is why I'm against all of it.

Mistakes were made. Instead of eliminating the evidence of them lets own them and make sure they dont happen again.

Or we can keep judging people from 150 years ago based on 'our' modern ethics.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Cool now let's remove statues of Canadian Feminist Heroes The Famous Five - who promoted eugenics, white supremacy attitudes and racism. Same logic? Fair is fair!

Silly person. It's only the names/likenesses of white males that must be purged.