Okay, I'll bite. First, Russian isn't a race. Second, how is pointing out the statistically-verified, commonly held beliefs of a society racist exactly? I've never said "I hate all Russian." I said their culture and society was garbage and I was specifically referring to the dominant culture in 21st century Russia. Exactly none of that pertains to race.
This is all 100% accurate.
However, Northcrunk is onto something, despite seeming to stumble over it accidentally and mischaracterize the point in the course of unearthing it. This same sort of rational exercise is routinely referred to as bigotry when applied to statistically verified commonly held beliefs in Muslim societies. We're way off the rails of this thread at this point and I don't really want to get into the weeds on that, but it's worth noting the analogy and setting it aside for the next time that discussion rears its head.
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It's hard for us to relate to the Hollywood stuff because it's simply its own culture that we as outsiders can't relate. On one hand you have actresses like Uma Thurman condemning the Weinstein which is understandable but then there's the pictures of her posing kissing him at parties and celebrating when their movies win awards. It's like the entire culture is based off creeps and fakes. I'm kind of torn in that many of these actors/actresses put fame and money ahead of doing what was right. Is fear of getting blackballed a good enough reason to enable the cycle to repeat over and over and over to the people that come behind you? Like I said maybe as an outsider I can't fully understand and maybe I would do the same in their situation but there does seem to be a degree of selfishness all around.
That's not unusual though when it comes down to it. Many abused people put a smiling face on in public especially when they believe if they don't their career, health or life could be in jeopardy.
It is really not a Hollywood/entertainment industry only thing. It happens in every industry in every city in every country in the world.
My fear is that this is indeed being viewed just as a Hollywood problem more and more as the days go by because that is all we hear about. I certainly don't want to see the "regular" person remaining silent because the behavior purge stops at the edge of Hollywood.
However, Northcrunk is onto something, despite seeming to stumble over it accidentally and mischaracterize the point in the course of unearthing it. This same sort of rational exercise is routinely referred to as bigotry when applied to statistically verified commonly held beliefs in Muslim societies. We're way off the rails of this thread at this point and I don't really want to get into the weeds on that, but it's worth noting the analogy and setting it aside for the next time that discussion rears its head.
Yeah, I don’t know about that. Rubecube reiterated multiple times that he doesn’t dislike Russians, but that he has a problem with the society and culture. This is not at all different than northcrunk’s history regarding Muslim conversations. He’s said many times he doesn’t dislike Muslims, but has a problem with Islam.
I don’t see a vast difference. It just rings hollow for the same guy who has called out virtue signalling and playing the race card to be doing the same thing when convenient.
I think we can all agree that the beliefs that permeate most of Russian society and are held by the vast majority of Russians are, in fact, garbage. That said, there are some incredible Russian people who do amazing things, represent their country well, and are far more socially liberal than their country, and we should be celebrating those people and holding them up as representations of what Russia should be, instead of what it is.
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However, Northcrunk is onto something, despite seeming to stumble over it accidentally and mischaracterize the point in the course of unearthing it. This same sort of rational exercise is routinely referred to as bigotry when applied to statistically verified commonly held beliefs in Muslim societies. We're way off the rails of this thread at this point and I don't really want to get into the weeds on that, but it's worth noting the analogy and setting it aside for the next time that discussion rears its head.
If only I'd addressed that when I first started the derail...
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Originally Posted by rubecube
If you want to say that Muslims generally have backwards views regarding homosexuality and women's rights, you can easily find enough evidence supporting your argument. That's not typifying a group, it's stating what are commonly held beliefs.
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I think we can all agree that the beliefs that permeate most of Russian society and are held by the vast majority of Russians are, in fact, garbage. That said, there are some incredible Russian people who do amazing things, represent their country well, and are far more socially liberal than their country, and we should be celebrating those people and holding them up as representations of what Russia should be, instead of what it is.
I'll take it one step further and say I have a profound amount of respect and admiration for what Russia has contributed to the arts, philosophy and science throughout history. That's why I find modern day Russia and the "New Russians" to be such a tragedy. The predominant culture they're choosing to adopt and export is trash in comparison to what they've produced in the past.
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This is not at all different than northcrunk’s history regarding Muslim conversations. He’s said many times he doesn’t dislike Muslims, but has a problem with Islam. I don’t see a vast difference. It just rings hollow for the same guy who has called out virtue signalling and playing the race card to be doing the same thing when convenient.
This is basically what I was trying to point to, including the fact that Northcrunk was stumbling over his own point. There isn't really a difference between the two sorts of cultural criticism. Neither is bigoted.
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Originally Posted by rubecube
If only I'd addressed that when I first started the derail...
I clearly missed that, fair play.
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This is basically what I was trying to point to, including the fact that Northcrunk was stumbling over his own point. There isn't really a difference between the two sorts of cultural criticism. Neither is bigoted.
I wouldn't say neither is bigoted.
I would say neither is necessarily bigoted, but I think it's pretty rational to question the possible bigotry of people saying things like that.
Cultural criticism and bigotry do often go hand in hand.
As the co-host of NBC’s “Today,” Matt Lauer once gave a colleague a sex toy as a present. It included an explicit note about how he wanted to use it on her, which left her mortified.
On another day, he summoned a different female employee to his office, and then dropped his pants, showing her his penis. After the employee declined to do anything, visibly shaken, he reprimanded her for not engaging in a sexual act.
He would sometimes quiz female producers about who they’d slept with, offering to trade names. And he loved to engage in a crass quiz game with men and women in the office: “f—, marry, or kill,” in which he would identify the female co-hosts that he’d most like to sleep with.
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Lauer, who was paranoid about being followed by tabloid reporters, grew more emboldened at 30 Rockefeller Center as his profile rose following Katie Couric’s departure from “Today” in 2006. His office was in a secluded space, and he had a button under his desk that allowed him to lock his door from the inside without getting up. This afforded him the assurance of privacy. It allowed him to welcome female employees and initiate inappropriate contact while knowing nobody could walk in on him, according to two women who were sexually harassed by Lauer.
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According to sources, the sexual harassment extended to when Lauer traveled on assignment for NBC. Several employees recall how he paid intense attention to a young woman on his staff that he found attractive, focusing intently on her career ambitions. And he asked the same producer to his hotel room to deliver him a pillow, according to sources with knowledge of the interaction.
This was part of a pattern. According to multiple accounts, independently corroborated by Variety, Lauer would invite women employed by NBC late at night to his hotel room while covering the Olympics in various cities over the years. He later told colleagues how his wife had accompanied him to the London Olympics because she didn’t trust him to travel alone.
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I don't mean to be flippant, but the most surprising thing I've come away from this whole scandal with is how many dudes enjoy exposing their penis to co-workers. I don't get it.
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I'll take it one step further and say I have a profound amount of respect and admiration for what Russia has contributed to the arts, philosophy and science throughout history. That's why I find modern day Russia and the "New Russians" to be such a tragedy. The predominant culture they're choosing to adopt and export is trash in comparison to what they've produced in the past.
They've produced some pretty horrific culture in the past as well, so my Ukrainian grandparents told anyways.
Seriously, we've all seen managers take special interest in hot young women, but exposing yourself and sending them vibrators? Who the @#$# thinks that women would be interested in that or that they would ever get away with something like that? It's the kind of behaviour that is just totally detached from reality.
The biggest thing for me about Lauer and all of these guys, is how the hell are they seemingly horny 24/7/365? And not just a little horny, but like raring to go and always ready to whip their dicks out or masturbate unprompted. Maybe they need to study these guys brains to figure out what causes this kind of behavior. I get the power aspect of it, but there's something more to this. Lots of people exert power and they aren't sexual degenerates.
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The biggest thing for me about Lauer and all of these guys, is how the hell are they seemingly horny 24/7/365? And not just a little horny, but like raring to go and always ready to whip their dicks out or masturbate unprompted. Maybe they need to study these guys brains to figure out what causes this kind of behavior. I get the power aspect of it, but there's something more to this. Lots of people exert power and they aren't sexual degenerates.
Maybe it's just an issue of X percent of the population having sexual mental health issues. Normally those people would be arrested and put in jail for being peeping toms, flashers, etc...These people get powerful, so their behaviour is tolerated instead. It could also have something to do with the kind of risks required to become powerful in showbiz. Perhaps, by its nature, the industry will just always be filled with compulsive people. Either way, it's very weird and goes beyond regular power/harassment issues.
Lauer is the first one, I think, that I’ve found genuinely surprising. Some combination of his public image and not having heard rumours I guess (maybe they were out there?)
Maybe it's just an issue of X percent of the population having sexual mental health issues. Normally those people would be arrested and put in jail for being peeping toms, flashers, etc...These people get powerful, so their behaviour is tolerated instead. It could also have something to do with the kind of risks required to become powerful in showbiz. Perhaps, by its nature, the industry will just always be filled with compulsive people. Either way, it's very weird and goes beyond regular power/harassment issues.
Yeah just some these stories are beyond normal even for sexual deviant standards. I do think the feeling of invincibility they seem to have has a lot to do with it, almost like they wanna see how far they can push the boundaries before someone does something.
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree
Lauer is the first one, I think, that I’ve found genuinely surprising. Some combination of his public image and not having heard rumours I guess (maybe they were out there?)
Lauer has always been a noted dick, especially how he ran off Ann Curry and Tamron Hall from Today. Before today I don't think there were many rumours he was this depraved, but it's not that shocking to me this has come out.
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Yeah just some these stories are beyond normal even for sexual deviant standards. I do think the feeling of invincibility they seem to have has a lot to do with it, almost like they wanna see how far they can push the boundaries before someone does something.
Maybe their lives are awful, and they are trapped by the lifestyle. They push this over the top behaviour for a way out....Any psychiatrists in the house? I'm just grasping at straws for some kind of explanation to this disturbing madness.
