Jordan Peterson's Rant in the National Post

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

It's nothing but another weeding out process. .

Evidence?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Are you an "ALL LIVES MATTER!" person? Because you're stripping all context and history in your replies.

Yes I think so.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So someone who has profound mental health problems or physical disabilities but can't access adequate health services due to various societal or economic obstacles to care should sort themselves out first before blaming the world?

Peterson is a clinical psychologist. He’s treated many people with severe and debilitating mental illness. So clearly he believes not everyone can solve their problems by being more diligent and positive in the areas they can control. But a lot of people can.

This is one of the biggest problems with trying to address social ills today - we catastrophize by treating the worst case scenarios as the norm. Some people struggle to go to a job every day because their mother was an alcoholic who humiliated and belittled them, and now they’re in thrall to an addiction of some sort. They need serious intervention. But some people struggle to hold down a job because they’ve never developed healthy habits of body and mind. They can probably sort their own #### out with some guidance and incentive.

A lot of people denounce that sort of advice as victim-blaming. Everyone who suffers must be treated as helpless, powerless victims lacking all agency. Only by transforming our systems can they be given the top-down help they need.

But that approach is rooted in politics, not science. In most cases, treating distressed people as lacking in agency does not help them get better.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yes I think so.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Issue 4 - White people - especially first generation immigrants, whites with a blue collar upbringing and whites with a rural upbringing - are also victims of prejudice in white collar professions. I've seen it many times, often perpetrated by my white bosses of more privileged backgrounds. And I see it increasingly so. These white people don't talk the right way. They don't act the right way. They don't dress the right way. So many times, the privileged white guy remains privileged, but we burden the unprivileged white guy to make room for the unprivileged BIPOC. And then everyone calls the unprivileged white guy a redneck, racist, deplorable when he gets upset at the system.

The upper middle classes have always found ways to demonstrate their superiority to the lower orders. That’s one of the incentives to climb the social ladder - sneering at those on the lower rungs. The culture wars enable educated and sophisticated whites to flaunt their own moral stature by ridiculing uneducated whites. And the best part is by doing it under the auspices of championing minorities, they get to feel good about themselves while they’ve doing it. It’s an irresistible win-win.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The upper middle classes have always found ways to demonstrate their superiority to the lower orders. That’s one of the incentives to climb the social ladder - sneering at those on the lower rungs. The culture wars enable educated and sophisticated whites to flaunt their own moral stature by ridiculing uneducated whites. And the best part is by doing it under the auspices of championing minorities, they get to feel good about themselves while they’ve doing it. It’s an irresistible win-win.

After being involved with some pretty high-level DEI initiatives at some of Canada's biggest corps, I can say with full confidence that once the white guys at the top learn the lingo, they will do absolutely everything in their power not to sacrifice their own position.

Wokeness becomes its own power system.

I am really happy when people who are marginalized gain power, and I personally do everything I can to make way for marginalized people or add my voice to theirs, but let's be honest, people who are really in charge have no interest in doing so. It is much easier to punch down on white people with less power and make them the real scapegoats.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The upper middle classes have always found ways to demonstrate their superiority to the lower orders. That’s one of the incentives to climb the social ladder - sneering at those on the lower rungs. The culture wars enable educated and sophisticated whites to flaunt their own moral stature by ridiculing uneducated whites. And the best part is by doing it under the auspices of championing minorities, they get to feel good about themselves while they’ve doing it. It’s an irresistible win-win.

Won't someone think of the whites!

[peter12]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Won't someone think of the whites!

It's more a situation of the poor being exploited by the wealthy, but yeah, your comment is actually pretty demonstrative of the problem.

I would love to see solidarity among all poor people.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Is the lack of white guys in accounting a result of a history of accounting positions being denied to them because they're white males?

Was the historic lack of women and visible minorities in accounting due to positions being denied them because they were women and visible minorities? Were there large numbers of graduates of accounting programs who were turned down for jobs because they weren’t white men? I don’t think so.

Historically, almost everyone who went into accounting was white. Why? This is going to blow some people away, but Canada didn’t always have the demographics it has today. Within living memory, 95 per cent if Canadians were of European origin. Accountants in the 70s and 80s were almost all white because Canada in the 50s and 60s (when they would have gone to school) was almost entirely white.

Women didn’t start going to accounting school until the 70s and 80s because middle-class women didn’t break out of their traditional role as homemakers until then. What point would there be in a woman in 1960 spending the time, effort, and money to become a CA if there was a 90+ per cent chance she was going to spend her 20s and much of her 30s having and raising children?

That changed once women started pursuing post-secondary education with the intent of having careers. Then they flooded into accounting (and law, and medicine) schools. In the early 70s, fewer then 10 per cent of the students in those programs were women. Today, more then half are.

Tldr: When there were few visible minorities in Canada, and few women pursuing professional careers, few visible minorities and women went into accounting. When larger numbers of minorities moved to or were raised in Canada, and more women pursued careers, they went into accounting.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Won't someone think of the whites!

That’s exactly the kind of sneering dismissal I’m talking about. Most of the poor in Canada are white.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

I used to worship Wait But Why's Tim Urban, until the Trump Era turned him into a Center Is The Truth And The Light prophet. sometimes it's ok to admit the truth is not actually somewhere in the middle. like if one end is "kill all Jews" and the other end is "don't kill all Jews", then I don't think you're gonna want to sit on the fence for that.

Nice straw man.

I think on the whole right vs left thing in historical context, it would be "Hitler" versus "Stalin" representing the extremes where the middle would be kill no one.

To people in the middle MAGAstan is Hitler and Wokistan is Stalin. The middle is Denmark or Canada.

That's not saying the middle is perfect, and can't be improved, but its the pinnacle of thousands of years of civilization and beats the #### out of what the extremes are peddling.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's more a situation of the poor being exploited by the wealthy, but yeah, your comment is actually pretty demonstrative of the problem.

I would love to see solidarity among all poor people.

Poor people don't think they're going to be poor long, they're going to get out of it.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Was the historic lack of women and visible minorities in accounting due to positions being denied them because they were women and visible minorities? Were there large numbers of graduates of accounting programs who were turned down for jobs because they weren’t white men? I don’t think so.

I can't say for certain regarding accounting, but talk to women and minorities in STEM and it's absolutely been an industry that's hostile to marginalized people. Is your stance seriously that women and minorities haven't been historically denied jobs because of their gender, race, etc.?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Poor people don't think they're going to be poor long, they're going to get out of it.

"Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaires"...

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I can't say for certain regarding accounting, but talk to women and minorities in STEM and it's absolutely been an industry that's hostile to marginalized people. Is your stance seriously that women and minorities haven't been historically denied jobs because of their gender, race, etc.?

Well people in STEM are anti-social to begin with, they're going to make anyone uncomfortable.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That’s exactly the kind of sneering dismissal I’m talking about. Most of the poor in Canada are white.

And how are they being discriminated against?

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Poor people don't think they're going to be poor long, they're going to get out of it.

I'm not so sure, the most visible issue related to this at the moment in the US, the movement against testing and other quantitative scoring systems for admissions to elite academic schools and universities (often against Asian-Americans of all classes) has created a few interesting political alliances.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by peter12

It's more a situation of the poor being exploited by the wealthy, but yeah, your comment is actually pretty demonstrative of the problem.

I would love to see solidarity among all poor people.

That seems like a non racial problem so why are we concerning ourselves with the race of the people being implicated?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Nice straw man.

I think on the whole right vs left thing in historical context, it would be "Hitler" versus "Stalin" representing the extremes where the middle would be kill no one.

To people in the middle MAGAstan is Hitler and Wokistan is Stalin. The middle is Denmark or Canada.

That's not saying the middle is perfect, and can't be improved, but its the pinnacle of thousands of years of civilization and beats the #### out of what the extremes are peddling.

Speaking of straw men, the example you are objecting to was given as an exception to Erick's absolutism, not as an alternative rule.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

And how are they being discriminated against?

Anyone with a working class accent will be actively discriminated against. The same thing happens to anyone with a foreign, non-Western European accent.