Johnny Gaudreau: Trade or Keep?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The good news is they'll likely recover a late 1st for Hamonic this spring.

You think? Way he has been playing I think he would get a second

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The good news is they'll likely recover a late 1st for Hamonic this spring.

Does a few months of a broken-down Hamonic still hold that kind of value? I’m skeptical.

I think he might be worth a 2nd, maybe two 2nds at the very most if his play picks up. Any team but Winnipeg probably sees him as a pure rental, and in that context 1st rounders only typically go for premier players these days.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The obvious reason for the lack of depth is bad UFA signings (which are on Treliving). But a more deep-rooted problem is trading away a wealth of picks to bolsters the depth, rather than drafting and developing it internally. My sense is the latter goes all the way to the top, to ownership. Murray Edwards is not a patient man.

Honestly, blaming Edwards here is a lazy argument meant to deny agency to Treliving for his decisions.

Most of our higher picks were lost to acquire a solid young player (Hamilton, Hamonic) or as part of our desperate search for a goalie (Elliott and Smith). But we also gained 2nd rounders in the Hudler, Baertschi and Russell trades so that ends up a net wash.

Beyond the two goalie deals, the only trade where we gave up a pick of value to bolster depth was the Lazar trade. And that one definitely stunk from day one.

Otherwise, we moved two firsts and four seconds for Hamonic, two seasons of Hamilton, Hanafin and Lindholm. Perhaps the lost picks in 2015 from the Hamilton trade would have been better than Hanafin and Lindholm are now. The Hamonic trade would represent draft picks that would not be contributing to the NHL roster at this point.

Also, you'd have to contemplate the fact that some of the picks Treliving has acquired also look to be major wins (Andersson, Kylington) or have significant potential (Dube, Parsons).

Ultimately Cliff, even if you want to bizarrely blame Murray Edwards for these deals, you're going to have to admit that we are at worst a wash on this front.

[Vinny01]

Broken down?

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Bonded

You think? Way he has been playing I think he would get a second

At the deadline? If the Flames are sellers? I genuinely believe he gets a 1st.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I really hope JG can have a statement game against COL to shut down this ridiculousness.

Holy ####, I did not notice the next game was against COL

Ahhhhh #### he damn well better, as that looks like another pending tragedy

[bax]

Monahan, Backlund, and Gaudreau are shooting at 4.4%, 5.0%, and 2.4% at ES.

Last 3 season's average ES shooting percentage is 12.8%, 11.6%, and 9.7%,

Like I said earlier, they are bound for some regression here. They aren't a perfect team and they have flaws in their roster, but they are also better than where they are right now.

Credit to Kent Wilson for that one.

Combine that with their travel heavy schedule to start and I think it's way too early to start panicking.

[Split98]

^ Makes sense to me

I think about 1% of his slappers and goal-line-near-corner attempts actually go in... and that accounts for about 90% of his shot attempts.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Yeah, Johnny really needs to stop that low percentage short side attempt.

Not using his linemates, and giving away the puck on something that has a stupidly low chance of being successful. It is selfish and counterproductive.

Peters should bench his ass for a few shifts / rest of the period when he does it again.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Ultimately Cliff, even if you want to bizarrely blame Murray Edwards for these deals, you're going to have to admit that we are at worst a wash on this front.

Several insiders have commented the Flames have a hansd-on ownership, and that there has been a perception around the league of 'too many cooks in the kitchen' in Flames executive. I suppose people can interpret that how they like.

I don't think Edwards is telling Peters who to put on the power play. But I don't have any trouble imagining that he has a say in the overall direction of the club, and that he told Treliving in the 2017 off-season "Rebuild's over, Brad. We need playoff success and playoff revenue. Do what you need to get better fast."

If you look at Treliving's overall tenure, yes, the picks traded look close to wash. But he did take over during a full-bore rebuild. The question whether he abandoned it and went into Win Now mode prematurely.

I think he did. Moving a 1st and two 2nds for a #3-4 d-man is a move a team makes when it has emerged as a contender and sees its window closing imminently. It's not the move of a team still dedicated to building through the draft.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yeah, Johnny really needs to stop that low percentage short side attempt.

Not using his linemates, and giving away the puck on something that has a stupidly low chance of being successful. It is selfish and counterproductive.

Peters should bench his ass for a few shifts / rest of the period when he does it again.

It's not taking that shot that is the problem - usually he has no option from where he is. It's low percentage but still the best option as opposed to a pass into the slot or the point which will get picked off and go the otehr way fast. It's where the shot goes (it should be on net and low, to create a rebound) and the fact he allowed himself to get funneled into the corner like that.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I really hope JG can have a statement game against COL to shut down this ridiculousness.

Just tell him he's playing a team based around New Jersey every night and you'll get vintage gaudreau every time. He always plays his home clubs impressively, whether hes in a funk or not, which just goes to show hes capable of doing it and how much of a between the ears thing this is.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think at some time in the future we will look back at this thread and say to ourselves, "What were we thinking?"

"Man, we held on to Gaudreau, didn't really contend and now he's announced he won't talk contract in his final year".

[Dube]

Trade him for a pro

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's not taking that shot that is the problem - usually he has no option from where he is. It's low percentage but still the best option as opposed to a pass into the slot or the point which will get picked off and go the otehr way fast. It's where the shot goes (it should be on net and low, to create a rebound) and the fact he allowed himself to get funneled into the corner like that.

I agree. It’s the fact that this situation happens all too frequently.

Coach needs to give him a better plan or bench him to give him time to think of a better plan

[d_phaneuf]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Very surprising to see an article like this from Haynes.

A sign of internal temperatures changing? You don't often see this kind of article from the local guys out of the blue like this.

So many people talking about it, its come up at sportsnet, the athletic, nhl network

Have to think someone in management at least floated the possibility to some people, even if just to see the reaction of the fanbase

[dammage79]

I would trade him. I think hes destined for Home no matter how he gets there. So move him, get something to build with and go from there.

Because from what I'm seeing on the ice, he is halfway out the door anyways. Hes frustrated more than usual, he gives up on so many plays. And he can't seem to even do the Johnny do it all thing hes been doing for two year now.

[Geeoff]

No one out there that really entices me as a trade for Johnny. Who's available? Taylor Hall? William Nylander? Don't feel like upgrades. Lateral move at best.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I agree. It’s the fact that this situation happens all too frequently.

Coach needs to give him a better plan or bench him to give him time to think of a better plan

Part of the issue is he's not strong or fast enough to turn the corner to the net, like other top scorers do when busting off the wing. So he's now left with an outside shot, a pass to the middle, or a bump back to the point. And those lanes just don't seem to be there any more. He used to have a clear path for an area pass to Wideman for a huge shot, or all the way across to Lindholm for a one timer. They are really clogging him up.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

No one out there that really entices me as a trade for Johnny. Who's available? Taylor Hall? William Nylander? Don't feel like upgrades. Lateral move at best.

No, you go after cost controlled players. Like Konecny, Debrusk, Lias Andersen, get a package. Fill holes.