Amazon planning second headquarters with 50,000 jobs

[CliffFletcher]

I'd be more interested in knowing what the median salary is. If the top gets paid highly enough, it's entirely possible three-quarters of employees earn less than the average salary.

[jeffporfirio]

FWIW Amazon stock is up almost 11% on earning today

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

I made the switch from O/G to this type of environment, and yeah, shock was a pretty good way to describe my first month. If someone charts my CP posting history it's probably pretty clear when I made the switch... haha.

I think this is one of the good reasons why the location has to be close to recreation and amenities. If you're working crazy and intense hours, proximity to skiing, hiking, boating, festivals is going to be an important draw. If you're in Winnipeg or Edmonton, how would you unwind? Working long hours and nothing to do in my off-time.. that would be depressing.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I think this is one of the good reasons why the location has to be close to recreation and amenities. If you're working crazy and intense hours, proximity to skiing, hiking, boating, festivals is going to be an important draw. If you're in Winnipeg or Edmonton, how would you unwind? Working long hours and nothing to do in my off-time.. that would be depressing.

What off-time??

[CliffFletcher]

Seriously, Amazon makes no bones about the fact it's a company for people who don't have lives outside of work.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Amazon definitely seems to be on the extreme end of things, but I'm not sure that list is that crazily different than what I've experienced working in the US. It can definitely be an extremely demanding environment, where your whole life revolves around work. Rewarding in many ways, but with some severe compromises.

I do think think it would come as a shock to a lot of Calgarians used to the cushier O/G way of doing things. Perhaps the leaner times of the last few years would help people transition better, but if you've ever uttered the phrase "I work to live", Amazon will definitely not be a place for you.

I've been in an O&G job for 6 years now and it has not been cushy. Working 9-11 hours a day is normal, being on call and getting woken up at night is normal, working the odd holiday is normal. I think it really depends on the company and job title. And that can be O&G or non O&G jobs.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

I've been in an O&G job for 6 years now and it has not been cushy. Working 9-11 hours a day is normal, being on call and getting woken up at night is normal, working the odd holiday is normal. I think it really depends on the company and job title. And that can be O&G or non O&G jobs.

The 'cushy' O&G life is a little overblown IMO. It may have been a little better before the downturn but people still worked a ton.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Of course they won't all be 100K jobs... I don't think anyone thinks the Amazon janitors & admin assistants would be making 100K. It's 50K jobs that wouldn't otherwise be here... the decrease in labour supply will increase wages as companies compete for hires in a more limited labour pool.

Here's my rub.

If you are telling the bidding cities that they will see 50,000 jobs at ~100K you give the impression there will be a huge economic impact. That many people working at above average salaries would have a huge impact on the local real estate, restaurants, etc.

This sounds awesome and is what municipalities are clamoring for.

But

If one person is making 500k and 10 are making 50k, the impact is considerably less. Those 10 have limited disposable income and will have a minimal effect on the local economy. Buddy making 500k is banking at least half of it, which has 0 positive effect on the local economy.

This sounds pretty meh and isn't worth selling your future for.

At the end of the day it's a lot of jobs and should be a good thing as long as the incentives are balanced. 7B in incentives seems ridiculous.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I think this is one of the good reasons why the location has to be close to recreation and amenities. If you're working crazy and intense hours, proximity to skiing, hiking, boating, festivals is going to be an important draw. If you're in Winnipeg or Edmonton, how would you unwind? Working long hours and nothing to do in my off-time.. that would be depressing.

Winnipeg as pretty much all of the same amenities/diversions as Calgary has - with the exception of mountains and an area like bragg creek

nhl team, cfl team, wpg has pro baseball, lots of access to nice lakes, shopping malss a zoo, a museum......

yeah, parts of wpg are uglier than Calgary, and generally speaking their is more money in calgary - it is not like Winnipeg just got indoor plumbing and are still dealing with party type telephone lines

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by jeffporfirio

FWIW Amazon stock is up almost 11% on earning today

How could anyone in a right mind invest in the P/E of 277? In simple language, this means that an investor will recoup the investment in 277 years from profits. I can't find a better example of of investor's exuberant irrationality.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

I've been in an O&G job for 6 years now and it has not been cushy. Working 9-11 hours a day is normal, being on call and getting woken up at night is normal, working the odd holiday is normal. I think it really depends on the company and job title. And that can be O&G or non O&G jobs.

Obviously there are is going to be a wide spectrum as well in Calgary, but in my experience the extremes at a lot of these US corps are often just another level of ruthless than what I've seen here, and much more common.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

Winnipeg as pretty much all of the same amenities/diversions as Calgary has - with the exception of mountains and an area like bragg creek

nhl team, cfl team, wpg has pro baseball, lots of access to nice lakes, shopping malss a zoo, a museum......

yeah, parts of wpg are uglier than Calgary, and generally speaking their is more money in calgary - it is not like Winnipeg just got indoor plumbing and are still dealing with party type telephone lines

I just think it would be a hard sell to prospective employees. I personally would rather have a 60 hour work week in Calgary or Vancouver, than a 40 hour work week in the Winnipeg.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by speede5

Here's my rub.

If you are telling the bidding cities that they will see 50,000 jobs at ~100K you give the impression there will be a huge economic impact. That many people working at above average salaries would have a huge impact on the local real estate, restaurants, etc.

This sounds awesome and is what municipalities are clamoring for.

But

If one person is making 500k and 10 are making 50k, the impact is considerably less. Those 10 have limited disposable income and will have a minimal effect on the local economy. Buddy making 500k is banking at least half of it, which has 0 positive effect on the local economy.

This sounds pretty meh and isn't worth selling your future for.

At the end of the day it's a lot of jobs and should be a good thing as long as the incentives are balanced. 7B in incentives seems ridiculous.

It's not just 50,000 jobs.

On average, an average worker is probably bringing a spouse and one kid with them.

Assume 35,000 new workers needing to move here, with another 70,000 people attached to them. Assume the associated wife/husband also wants a job.

It used to be a commonly accepted economic principle that every factory job created another 3 service jobs in the community. So, 150,000 other jobs to support the 50,000. Assume 100,000 of those people also have to come from other places.

So, 170,000 new jobs or people looking for jobs, reflecting an additional 205,000 people (including kids) in the city or area.

Not counting other, unrelated, organic growth.

A megalopolis like Toronto can absorb that easily enough. For a place the size of Calgary, it could change the character of the city.

Just spitballing.

[username]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Seriously, Amazon makes no bones about the fact it's a company for people who don't have lives outside of work.

I'm really trying hard to stay out of this thread but this comment is simply not true. I have 3 friends that are all s/w engineers at the HQ in Seattle and they love it. Yes you work hard, but you get tons of time off and the projects you work on are literally changing people's lives.

This assertion that Amazon is some evil corporation is completely false. My buddies and everyone they know that works there has nothing but great things to say about being there.

[CaptainYooh]

I've listened to Nenshi speaking about Amazon (and four other things) yesterday at a luncheon. He said that it's now really down to a choice between Calgary and Denver. He said that the Calgary proposal is financially beneficial for Amazon against any other American contender (mainly due to the lower overall taxes, quality of life and universal health care costs). If Amazon is really open to building a HQ in Canada and not just shopping/playing a bait game with an US contender/US Government , then we should get it.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I've listened to Nenshi speaking about Amazon (and four other things) yesterday at a luncheon. He said that it's now really down to a choice between Calgary and Denver. He said that the Calgary proposal is financially beneficial for Amazon against any other American contender (mainly due to the lower overall taxes, quality of life and universal health care costs). If Amazon is really open to building a HQ in Canada and not just shopping/playing a bait game with an US contender/US Government , then we should get it.

Nenshi analyzed the other 200+ proposals did he? Very presumptive to be claiming such things a week after the RFP closed.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Nenshi analyzed the other 200+ proposals did he? ...

He didn't say that. He said that he believed it's really between us and Denver.

[jeffporfirio]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

How could anyone in a right mind invest in the P/E of 277? In simple language, this means that an investor will recoup the investment in 277 years from profits. I can't find a better example of of investor's exuberant irrationality.

Over 15 MM shares traded.

[CliffFletcher]

Betting companies have Calgary at 66:1. Not sure what Nenshi knows that they don't. But there's a lot of money to made for anyone who thinks he's right.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by username

I'm really trying hard to stay out of this thread but this comment is simply not true. I have 3 friends that are all s/w engineers at the HQ in Seattle and they love it. Yes you work hard, but you get tons of time off and the projects you work on are literally changing people's lives.

This assertion that Amazon is some evil corporation is completely false. My buddies and everyone they know that works there has nothing but great things to say about being there.

If you have been following this thread, you will notice people have a really hard time separating the concept of a shipping/distribution centre form HQ. I'm not sure why, but we keep seeing the same arguments. Thanks for the info, good to know HQ people are happy.