American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I totally disagree. Trump supporters are fanatic and there are a lot of them. Nobody is going to work on Monday when there is serious fighting and acts of violence in the streets. Does anyone think Trump just walks away if he loses and doesn't cry foul? He wasn't as unhinged last time and who had the state capital getting raided on their bingo card? That was just after a small amount of time of him crying foul, he has been building this up for years since then. It is going to be anarchy.

When you (as a potential Trump zealot) see those who stormed the capitol being rounded up and put in prison for a very long time, and many openly regretting their decision in the press, I doubt you see anyone actually commit an organized action that is actually effective or has enough man power/resources. The only reason it was close last time was because Trump had the National Guard stand down. Not gonna happen under Biden.

And again, when Billy Bob has a job to go to on Monday, and a family to feed, he's not doing anything. There will be isolated actions from incel ultra-right tiny militia groups, but nothing on a grand scale.

I have neighbors that I talk to and hang out with that voted Trump. They're not insane fanatics, as you put it. They're just dumbasses that vote on principles that they fail to recognize in a candidate, and vote down party lines. They're not starting a war for any reason.

Everyone paints a picture of a Trump supporter as those asshats who go to his rallies. I can say with absolute certainty that those make up a tiny fraction of the actual Trump voter. Most are normal people outside of their political views. It's hard to wrap your head around, but it's the reality.

In short, we won't be starting a civil war because there are no clearly divided lines like there was between the North and South (and even then it wasn't always all that clearly divided). We're all imbedded in each other's lives, and there's no way to get by without the other. We're stuck together, for better or worse....sometimes way worse. But hey, that's how a democracy works.

[KelVarnsen]

The United States isn’t a democracy

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

The United States isn’t a democracy

It's comments like this, and some of the over the top rhetoric about he fall of democracy, that makes this thread an embarrassing read.

Get off Twitter and Facebook. It's ruining your brain as much as it's ruining the brains of the people you hate.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

The United States isn’t a democracy

An Alabama Democrat just flipped a seat.

https://www.semafor.com/article/03/2...p-alabama-seat

Democrats triumphed in yet another special election focused on abortion rights Tuesday night, when Alabama’s Marilyn Lands flipped a Republican state House seat in an unexpectedly lopsided vote.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

It's comments like this, and some of the over the top rhetoric about he fall of democracy, that makes this thread an embarrassing read.

Get off Twitter and Facebook. It's ruining your brain as much as it's ruining the brains of the people you hate.

The United States has never been a democracy by design, it's a republic that neither promises nor delivers majority rule, it gives the 40 million voters in California 55 electoral collage votes and Missouri's 6 million 10 votes and Wyoming's 500,000 voters gets the same number of senators as Cali.

It is a system purposefully weighted to give rural and southern voters 3 times as much power as urban North Eastern and west coast voters, that is by no measure a democracy and it has become less democratic by result in the last 30 or 40 years

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The United States has never been a democracy by design, it's a republic that neither promises nor delivers majority rule, it gives the 40 million voters in California 55 electoral collage votes and Missouri's 6 million 10 votes and Wyoming's 500,000 voters gets the same number of senators as Cali.

It is a system purposefully weighted to give rural and southern voters 3 times as much power as urban North Eastern and west coast voters, that is by no measure a democracy and it has become less democratic by result in the last 30 or 40 years

Most democracies have weighted systems of some kind, upper houses, FPTP distortions etc. Including our county - the Conservatives won the popular vote in the last federal election but did not form the government.

Federations/unions often have this sort of imbalanced, regional representation. Just look at the EU - voters in Latvia carry massively more weight than voters in Germany. With 2.24 million people, Latvia has 4 votes in the EU parliament. Germany, with 82.5 million, has 29 votes. That’s the price of getting smaller states to join unions. Without an equally-weighted senate, the U.S. probably never becomes a country in the first place.

When Canadian Conservatives complain about election results, they’re told to stop relying on running up huge wins in the prairies and learn to campaign better in parts of the country they’re weak in. Not sure why the same reasoning shouldn’t apply to Democrats.

[Fuzz]

https://jalopnik.com/chemtrail-bans-...lic-1851381331


Republicans doing the really important stuff like working on banning chem trails.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by troutman

An Alabama Democrat just flipped a seat.

https://www.semafor.com/article/03/2...p-alabama-seat

A swing of 32 points, I believe. Great sign.

[mikephoen]

Another problem with the US being a functional democracy is the disproportionate power of the Supreme Court, which has lifetime appointments. Nothing says democracy like lifetime appointments.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Another problem with the US being a functional democracy is the disproportionate power of the Supreme Court, which has lifetime appointments. Nothing says democracy like lifetime appointments.

While I disagree with having a lifetime appointment in principle, it does have democratic accountability as the candidates are appointed by a democratically elected president, and must be vetted through the senate before being confirmed. The problem is the politics of the congress and the appointing president.

The purpose of having the lifetime appointment was to ensure that they are not beholden to political swings from congress to congress, or from time period to time period. Could you imagine having the supreme court be remodeled by voters every 4-8 years? I'm not sure what the solution is. Someone else somewhere said maximum 20 years on the bench, and I'd be okay with that. It also means that there would be a planned succession process when candidates are ready to end their terms. I don't want voters determining who would make good justices. That's how you get Chief Justice Marjorie Taylor Greene (shudder).

[Harry Lime]

I'm guessing what the 'is not a democracy' was referring to, was the (relatively) recent explosion of gerrymandering, lack of term limits at various levels, widespread economic corruption, for profit justice and punishment, SuperPACs, no donation limits, corporations having the rights of people, the bleeding of religion in governance, insane debt, the power of billionaires, lack of oversight, breakdown of the media... things that started after Eisenhower, and are now a giant boulder rolling down a hill.

I mean, the best people in America are Biden and Trump to choose between. It's just weird to sit outside of it, and see people debating what they are told to debate, when the house is burning down.

[KelVarnsen]

afc summarized my feelings about the USA democracy

All democracies have their flaws and yes in the USA you can freely vote. But it just doesn't have true democracy vibes.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

When you (as a potential Trump zealot) see those who stormed the capitol being rounded up and put in prison for a very long time, and many openly regretting their decision in the press, I doubt you see anyone actually commit an organized action that is actually effective or has enough man power/resources. The only reason it was close last time was because Trump had the National Guard stand down. Not gonna happen under Biden.

And again, when Billy Bob has a job to go to on Monday, and a family to feed, he's not doing anything. There will be isolated actions from incel ultra-right tiny militia groups, but nothing on a grand scale.

I have neighbors that I talk to and hang out with that voted Trump. They're not insane fanatics, as you put it. They're just dumbasses that vote on principles that they fail to recognize in a candidate, and vote down party lines. They're not starting a war for any reason.

Everyone paints a picture of a Trump supporter as those asshats who go to his rallies. I can say with absolute certainty that those make up a tiny fraction of the actual Trump voter. Most are normal people outside of their political views. It's hard to wrap your head around, but it's the reality.

In short, we won't be starting a civil war because there are no clearly divided lines like there was between the North and South (and even then it wasn't always all that clearly divided). We're all imbedded in each other's lives, and there's no way to get by without the other. We're stuck together, for better or worse....sometimes way worse. But hey, that's how a democracy works.

I just want to say your experience with Trump supporters/voters are wildly different than mine. While I am not one to try and sound alarmist, the experiences I have had much more align with the possibility of another Jan 6th incident.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I just want to say your experience with Trump supporters/voters are wildly different than mine. While I am not one to try and sound alarmist, the experiences I have had much more align with the possibility of another Jan 6th incident.

*checks location*

Sounds about right. But I would caution against painting all other parts of America with the same brush. The deep south and parts of Oklahoma/Texas are where most of the nut jobs that show up to his rallies come from.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

*checks location*

Sounds about right. But I would caution against painting all other parts of America with the same brush. The deep south and parts of Oklahoma/Texas are where most of the nut jobs that show up to his rallies come from.

For sure. I am actually somewhat encouraged that your experience in Florida is pretty tame. I would have assumed the worst for that area.

I grew up in rural Illinois. And while the state is blue, pretty much everyone I know back home are big Trumpers. Lived in a medium sized town in South Carolina for a few years and Tulsa for the last 11. So I have been some pretty red places my whole life. (Tulsa itself is decently blue, but I'm a typical suburban yuppie, so I'm still surrounded by conservatives)

[Dion]

Pump-and-dump investors cash out on 'crazy' Trump fans buying up Truth Social stock

Early investors in the Trump Media & Technology Group are telling Reuters that they made a quick profit by cashing out late last week just before the company's first financial report sent its share prices into a freefall on Monday.

One such investor was Mohammed Al Shalloudi, a 21-year-old data analyst from the United Arab Emirates, who rushed to invest in the Truth Media stock as soon as it became available because he believed he could get Trump supporters to pay premium prices for a stock that he believed was wildly overpriced.

Al Shalloudi's bet has already paid off, given that he bought up shares when they were trading at $37 a piece and then sold them off last week when the price hit $65.

"It was a no-brainer," he tells Reuters. "You buy the stock, wait for Trump's fan base to hear about it, and enjoy your profit."

A software developer who only wished to be identified as Sarah told Reuters that her calculus in investing in the Truth Social parent company was similar to Al Shalloudi's.

“I invested $10,000 last Tuesday because MAGA is crazy and they will pump the stock,” she explained.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/savi...dfd0fa1f&ei=56

[Reggie Dunlop]

Trump is now suing the co-founders of Truth Social...

The pair, who were contestants on Trump's NBC show "The Apprentice," had pitched him on the idea of Truth Social after he was banned from what was then known as Twitter following the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...res-rcna146106

[puffnstuff]

Trump using other peoples money to post bond for his two appeals, so far, is probably a nothingburger right? I mean all that money surely wouldnt influence the grifter to adjust policies, should he win, right?
Why doesnt the 'billionaire' use his own money?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Trump using other peoples money to post bond for his two appeals, so far, is probably a nothingburger right? I mean all that money surely wouldnt influence the grifter to adjust policies, should he win, right?
Why doesnt the 'billionaire' use his own money?

From I've been able to ascertain that is his money. He's used up pretty much all of his Super PAC money to pay his legal bills. In 2023 he used over 50 million he grifted from his supporters for his legal bills.

[photon]

People like Trump don't get wealthy by spending their own money.

The latest bond was posted by Knight Specialty Insurance Company who is chaired by Don Hankey, a Trump supporter. He bailed Trump out a few years ago with remortgaging some properties, and has had other financial dealings with Trump's family.

And yeah, on one hand Republicans have been trying to impeach Biden because he's supposedly getting money from others so will be influenced, while Trump openly takes money from others.