Pretty sure Kalingrad between Poland and Lithuania, unless we going old school to WWII
Yes but I thought it was always Koenigsberg, then became Kaliningrad in 1945 and populated with Russians after the Germans were ethnically cleansed. Was it part of Poland between 1945 and 1990?
It was in the context of Peter saying Canada should get serious about national defense.
Germany - actually you make a point. This was their time to take a major leadership role and they failed miserably.
I find this so funny though.
They didnt 'fail miserably' they literally didnt want to take a major leadership role and are looking around frantically for someone else to do it.
Hence pointing fingers at the US and UK.
A huge part of European Geopolitics and Economics of the past 70 years has been specifically focused on making sure Germany doesnt and cannot take a leadership role in the region.
When Germany steps up to lead...bad #### happens.
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They didnt 'fail miserably' they literally didnt want to take a major leadership role and are looking around frantically for someone else to do it.
Hence pointing fingers at the US and UK.
A huge part of European Geopolitics and Economics of the past 70 years has been specifically focused on making sure Germany doesnt and cannot take a leadership role in the region.
When Germany steps up to lead...bad #### happens.
Ok but like honestly are we not over that yet? Germany is the defacto leader of the region. It's time they embraced it and used their economic and industrial might for good and stop being ####ing afraid of their own shadow.
Honestly, though, would you do this if you were in their shoes? I mean we're talking about western countries being hesitant to respond even with serious economic penalties like SWIFT and asset seizure, and we're going to suggest that the ordinary Russian citizen put their lives and wellbeing on the line to oppose their own government? I don't know what my mindset would be as a Russian citizen but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people thought, "look, no one else in the world cares enough to even take a hit in the pocketbook, I'm not going out and getting the crap beat out of me and being thrown in jail indefinitely." The people who are willing to take those risks are, frankly, heroes.
Regardless, Russians will be a big part of their country's own fate going forward. Information and idea sharing has never been more accessible in human history, including within Russian borders. Once Putin and his oligarchs are gone, will the young, globally-connected generations put up with this type of leadership? Russia has fallen before; dictators around the world have fallen before by motivated peoples who see their country's future as the highest priority. Will this aggression be accepted in the long-term?
It's no coincidence that all the Trumpist talking heads are all praising Russia and throwing Ukraine under the bus this week as they show they are either knowingly or unknowingly under the political and monetary thumb of Putin and working as Russian agents against their own country.
Trump himself called Putin a genius in an interview the day prior. Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson, Laura Inghram, etc. etc. are all praising Russia, blaming Biden, and denigrating the Ukraine on social media and Fox News.
Russia has effectively executed the KGB playbook of seeding their agents and sowing discord in the west to turn even what was once the bulwark Reagan-conservative anti-Russian front of the cold war into fanatical right-wing allies.
At the same time, it's no coincidence that this was timed with internal turmoil inside the US that has been sown via aggressively seeding their agents throughout positions of influence and flooding social media with facebook pages and bots that have convinced many this is in their best interest. The only reason this didn't coincide perfectly with the timing of the US Freedumb Convoy snarling up D.C. is that that American truckers were too incompentent to pull it off.
Last edited by Hack&Lube; 02-24-2022 at 11:09 AM.
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When Germany steps up to lead...bad #### happens.
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They didnt 'fail miserably' they literally didnt want to take a major leadership role and are looking around frantically for someone else to do it.
Hence pointing fingers at the US and UK.
A huge part of European Geopolitics and Economics of the past 70 years has been specifically focused on making sure Germany doesnt and cannot take a leadership role in the region.
When Germany steps up to lead...bad #### happens.
Germany very readily picked sides during the wars in the former Yugoslavia.
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Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
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"They should level Moscow"
"Putin is a psychopath"
"The West should invade Russia"
"Putin wants the former Soviet glory"
"Remove Russia from UN Security Council"
The degree and depth of political analysis in this thread is truly impressive.
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Forgive me, please, if this has been asked and answered; like many, I suspect, my understanding of the region and everything else, is woefully limited.
But, how far do we think this ends up going? Outside of Ukraine?
"They should level Moscow"
"Putin is a psychopath"
"The West should invade Russia"
"Putin wants the former Soviet glory"
"Remove Russia from UN Security Council"
The degree and depth of political analysis in this thread is truly impressive.
I don't think anyone was seriously suggesting that anyone should level Moscow... CC said that was a "fever dream". Same goes for an invasion of Russia. As far as Putin being a psychopath who wants some version of the Soviet Union restored, that doesn't seem anywhere near as crazy a thing to suggest. As far as removing Russia from the security council... I admit I don't really know much about that but I'd be interested to hear why that would be a bad thing.
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It occurs to me - and I'm sure I'm just late to think about this - that there is another angle to this involving China and Taiwan. Is this not just a test case for a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, in terms of what the likely repercussions are and the global appetite for responding to an incursion of this type? I know, the two situations are not analogous, but it still seems like if you take real, significant, painful steps against Putin, you're also putting Xi on notice that this sort of thing will not result in appeasement or halfhearted slaps on the wrist.
I don't know, maybe I'm completely out to lunch about that.
I think (or hope) China’s leaders recognize that the U.S. has much more at stake in ensuring Taiwan’s independence than Ukraine’s.
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"They should level Moscow"
"Putin is a psychopath"
"The West should invade Russia"
"Putin wants the former Soviet glory"
"Remove Russia from UN Security Council"
The degree and depth of political analysis in this thread is truly impressive.
Forgive us, it's taking a bit of time to convert from expert epidemiologists to military strategists.
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They didnt 'fail miserably' they literally didnt want to take a major leadership role and are looking around frantically for someone else to do it.
Hence pointing fingers at the US and UK.
A huge part of European Geopolitics and Economics of the past 70 years has been specifically focused on making sure Germany doesnt and cannot take a leadership role in the region.
When Germany steps up to lead...bad #### happens.
You're right, but when you're one of, if not the premiere economic power in today's Europe, you need to take a hard stance and show support to the rest of your partners. Expecting the UK and US to spearhead a response in your own backyard is a bad look and makes the whole group look weak to an aggressor like Putin. Ultimately a united diplomatic front is the only thing left to prevent large scale international conflict.
This is a country with a population larger than Canada that could quite possibly cease to exist as we know it and I'm not sure this can be ignored when you consider the ramifications for years to come. Putin is someone who has been on the record many, many times backing the return of the past "Soviet glory" - this isn't just a one and done situation as much as many may want it to be.
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 02-24-2022 at 11:02 AM.
Like I said: heroes. I wish I could be confident that someone outside that square has their backs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1qqaaz
Taiwan is the 22nd largest economy in the world, Ukraine is 57th.
Ukraine is still the largest, and 6th most populous, country that is entirely in Europe. So it's not nothing either.
Going up against China is also a rather different and more daunting proposition than going up against Russia, in that scenario.
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Everyone loves Norm MacDonald but deriding peoples emotion while posting a clip from The Late Show with David Letterman shows a slight lack of self awareness.
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Everyone loves Norm MacDonald but deriding peoples emotion while posting a clip from The Late Show with David Letterman shows a slight lack of self awareness.
I would propose that barring something truly egregious being posted, we commit to keeping the thread policing to a minimum and leave it to the moderators. There are more important things to talk about in here than minor breaches of decorum or taste.
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