Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Guess I just have more faith in Alberta than Ottawa from living here.

I lived in Ottawa. But what does living in Ottawa have to do with it? You think the feds run the city? All the services are run by the same levels of government as here. The police ar e city run except on federal sites like parliament.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What crappy service? Nah, the big issue is trying to pretend to be “standing up to Trudeau”.

Why is management from Edmonton any more efficient than management from Ottawa?

It’s a stupid, money wasting idea.

I still think it’s lack of service to rural areas. Crime rates have spiked in rural areas in the last few years.

Insulating AB from Ottawa is for sure part of it though.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I lived in Ottawa. But what does living in Ottawa have to do with it? You think the feds run the city? All the services are run by the same levels of government as here. The police ar e city run except on federal sites like parliament.

By Ottawa I meant the federal government. Not people from Ottawa.

[GioforPM]

The president of the Rural Municipalities of Alberta has called this notion a “billion-dollar boondoggle.”

And why would RCMP officers who quit to join the APP keep their RCMP pensions?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

By Ottawa I meant the federal government. Not people from Ottawa.

You said you lived in Ottawa and that gave you some sort of insight into how badly “Ottawa” runs things. So what does living in Ottawa have to do with it?

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Words in politics typically mean nothing. As I said it will be interesting to see if any of it comes to fruition.

My guess is the police force will happen. I’m betting rural municipalities will want that. I would also bet a restructuring and trimming of Alberta Health management is coming.

The pension plan is another story and would depend on a deep analysis. But Albertans contribute 16.5% of funding and take out 10.8%. So we’re burning our money at the moment.

Would you invest $16.50 in something to get $10.80 back? So there might be a big prize to leaving as long as we maintain your CPP contributions.

Alberta rural municipalities formally declare opposition to provincial police force

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...orce-1.6409580

The RMA said in a news release the transition cost represents a "significant unnecessary burden" for taxpayers. It added that while the proposed model recognizes the need for local input, it is unclear why municipalities cannot just work with the RCMP.

The RMA also criticizes a narrative that the RCMP is not accountable to Albertans, referencing the contract between the provincial government and the RCMP.

"Let's work with the existing system," McLauchlin said. "Let's make the existing system better."

The RMA report also noted it was unclear how a police commission appointed by the provincial government could remain politically neutral.

The next 4-5 years of corrections posting is going to get pretty tiresome it appears...

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The president of the Rural Municipalities of Alberta has called this notion a “billion-dollar boondoggle.”

And why would RCMP officers who quit to join the APP keep their RCMP pensions?

Every company I have left I kept my pension. I’m guessing there are laws around that.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Every company I have left I kept my pension. I’m guessing there are laws around that.

In many defined benefit pensions the value you get when not fully vested is not proportional to just finishing the last X years and becoming fully vested.

I suspect that is meant by keeping your pension is obtaining the full vested value of the pension rather than spilitting years of service between two pensions and have less overall in retirement. It would be case by case but generally this is likely correct.

[BlindMilwaukee]

@MBates - Paul McLauchlin was on AM770 Monday or Tuesday and he was great.

He came off very reasonable, level headed, and interested in working collaboratively. To be fair that’s my only knowledge on him. A 5 minute spot with Shaye Ganam.

But he seemed to me to have the qualities I’d want in a conservative leader in Alberta. Something I can’t imagine I will ever say about Danielle Smith.

If he is a conservative mind in our province and the slight majority of voters in Alberta demand a conservative provincial government I would like to see him get some real attention.

I think 90% of us on CP agree this iteration of Alberta conservatives has moved way too far right.

Florida is nothing to aspire to.

Full disclosure - I voted NDP and my typically blue riding in Calgary went orange.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Every company I have left I kept my pension. I’m guessing there are laws around that.

You likely didn’t get the employer kick in - just your own contributions. And police pensions are heavily employer weighted because of unions. Guess what the APP won’t have?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You said you lived in Ottawa and that gave you some sort of insight into how badly “Ottawa” runs things. So what does living in Ottawa have to do with it?

No I said from living in Alberta. I haven’t lived in Ottawa. Just not worded clearly.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Words in politics typically mean nothing. As I said it will be interesting to see if any of it comes to fruition.

My guess is the police force will happen. I’m betting rural municipalities will want that. I would also bet a restructuring and trimming of Alberta Health management is coming.

The pension plan is another story and would depend on a deep analysis. But Albertans contribute 16.5% of funding and take out 10.8%. So we’re burning our money at the moment.

Would you invest $16.50 in something to get $10.80 back? So there might be a big prize to leaving as long as we maintain our CPP contributions.

I would be interested to know the breakdown of working population and retired population in relation to those numbers, otherwise they don't really mean anything. As a population ages those percentages will most likely at some point meet in the middle and then flip. But that is just a guess as I haven't looked into it at all.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Looks like all municipalities contract police work. Grande Prairie looks to have switched to local policing. Populationwise probably 70% of the people in AB are covered by local police forces right now. So really we’re talking about rural jurisdictions.

Sounds like the big issue is crappy service. So now we’re paying for 30% of AB’s population to receive inadequate service. Maybe it makes sense to have more control over it. I’m guessing you would find efficiencies in management vs having it managed out of Ottawa. So it might end up being a wash dollarwise with better service.

Which municipalities in Alberta have complained about poor service from the RCMP?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

I would be interested to know the breakdown of working population and retired population in relation to those numbers, otherwise they don't really mean anything. As a population ages those percentages will most likely at some point meet in the middle and then flip. But that is just a guess as I haven't looked into it at all.

You’re probably right. As AB has a younger population because of oppurtunity. But if you think that isn’t going to change due to oppurtunity the descrepency is still a big issue.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Early this year, Surrey BC received the green light to dump the RCMP and start their own police force.

And BC had a bi-partisan committee look at policing issues there.

The special committee, made of provincial politicians from across all parties, unanimously agreed a provincial police force would create a more consistent standard for police response, training and oversight across B.C.

And made these recommendations:

• That B.C. transition to a new provincial police service governed by a new Community Safety and Policing Act;
• That Indigenous communities have direct input into their police services;
• That the government "create and appropriately fund a continuum of response to mental health, addictions and other complex social issues" and that mental health services be integrated into 911 options;
• Reforming police funding models to be more "fair and equitable" for municipalities; and
• Requiring police services to collect and publicly report race-based and other demographic data in order to address systemic racism within policing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...mbia-1.6434489

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ottawa manages the armed forces, the post office, the appointment of all superior court judges, and they are all fine with no out of the ordinary problems.

I don't think anybody believes the Canadian military is being run well with significant recruitment and procurement issues. And judge vacancies in the court system are not being filled promptly, leading to delays in cases being heard.

Several courts across the country routinely operate with 10 to 15 per cent of their judicial positions vacant, Wagner said, and the process to fill these positions can take many months.


The chief justice said the situation threatens to undermine Canadians' confidence in the justice system and in all democratic institutions — because a growing number of criminal and civil cases are at risk of falling apart.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sup...cies-1.6836145

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You likely didn’t get the employer kick in - just your own contributions. And police pensions are heavily employer weighted because of unions. Guess what the APP won’t have?

Well, it depends. Most pensions have a two year vesting period where the funds (both employer and your contributions) are yours if you leave after that point. A couple points though; the two years isn’t always the case, and that beating period is as a member of the plan and not just time as an employee. Some places make you wait say 6 months or a year before you can enter the pension plan.

Then, if you leave, you often have the option of taking the funds with you (as a locked-in retirement account), or remaining as a member of the plan and getting the pension accrued down the line. The options and what happens are spelled out though, and it’s not the same in every pension plan.

I don’t think you can say that an Alberta Police plan would have no employer contributions, or anything because we just have no idea. I’d assume (just guessing) they’d become part of the LAPP.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well, it depends. Most pensions have a two year vesting period where the funds (both employer and your contributions) are yours if you leave after that point. A couple points though; the two years isn’t always the case, and that beating period is as a member of the plan and not just time as an employee. Some places make you wait say 6 months or a year before you can enter the pension plan.

Then, if you leave, you often have the option of taking the funds with you (as a locked-in retirement account), or remaining as a member of the plan and getting the pension accrued down the line. The options and what happens are spelled out though, and it’s not the same in every pension plan.

I don’t think you can say that an Alberta Police plan would have no employer contributions, or anything because we just have no idea. I’d assume (just guessing) they’d become part of the LAPP.

Back when I was a teacher all I got was my contributions back when I left the profession, and I’d been there for 5-6 years. The employer contributions didn’t vest until MUCH later.

What I do know is that police pension plans are gold plated. They can retire young with incomes higher than most working people get. I’d be pretty wary of leaving a position with that benefit especially when Smith has been making noises which put government pensions at extreme risk across the board.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by accord1999

I don't think anybody believes the Canadian military is being run well with significant recruitment and procurement issues. And judge vacancies in the court system are not being filled promptly, leading to delays in cases being heard.






https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sup...cies-1.6836145

We’re talking about running things. The Canadian military operates adequately. Recruitment is a different issue. Judge vacancies is a matter of funding, and funding of the courts is provincial. The point is that the people they have appointed are well regarded generally.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

We’re talking about running things. The Canadian military operates adequately. Recruitment is a different issue. Judge vacancies is a matter of funding, and funding of the courts is provincial. The point is that the people they have appointed are well regarded generally.

Here is an article on federal judge vacancies and issues:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sup...cies-1.6836145