Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Feds pay 30% of the RCMP bill, let's make sure Alberta pays all of that to keep Alberta taxes in Alberta lol.

Why does Ontario do it then if that’s the arrangement?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Honestly though. What difference would it make. Ontario does the same thing.

Ontario has 15 million people.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yup. Also coming up: Alberta Revenue Services, Alberta Security and Intelligence Service, Alberta Armed Forces.

Alberta dollar

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Why does Ontario do it then if that’s the arrangement?

Because they've had a Provincial police force of some kind or another going back to before Confederation.

The RCMP (NWMP) is hugely responsible for Alberta becoming a province.

[Yamer]

What would happen to those officer's and personnel's pensions if it went from RCMP to provincial? I've been trying to look up the plan for something like that but can't find anything.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

Because they've had a Provincial police force of some kind or another going back to before Confederation.

The RCMP (NWMP) is hugely responsible for Alberta becoming a province.

You’re right on the Ontario comment. Quebec is the same. Looks like our force folded in the 30s.

Sounds like one of the big issues is service or lack there of in rural areas. So more efficient and tailored service.

My take is if I’m paying the same amount of tax or less and everyone gets the same level of service or better why wouldn’t you do it.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Goriders

You’re right on the Ontario comment. Quebec is the same. Looks like our force folded in the 30s.

Sounds like one of the big issues is service or lack there of in rural areas. So more efficient and tailored service.

My take is if I’m paying the same amount of tax or less and everyone gets the same level of service or better why wouldn’t you do it.

We'd be paying more though. It's a higher cost and we'd lose the Federal funding. I'm all for improving Police services but how will we pay for it?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

You’re right on the Ontario comment. Quebec is the same. Looks like our force folded in the 30s.

Sounds like one of the big issues is service or lack there of in rural areas. So more efficient and tailored service.

My take is if I’m paying the same amount of tax or less and everyone gets the same level of service or better why wouldn’t you do it.

It costs more. And why would you assume the same or better service than a force which has been in place for a hundred years? I expect it’d be made up of rejects from RCMP and city forces.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

We'd be paying more though. It's a higher cost and we'd lose the Federal funding. I'm all for improving Police services but how will we pay for it?

Looks like all municipalities contract police work. Grande Prairie looks to have switched to local policing. Populationwise probably 70% of the people in AB are covered by local police forces right now. So really we’re talking about rural jurisdictions.

Sounds like the big issue is crappy service. So now we’re paying for 30% of AB’s population to receive inadequate service. Maybe it makes sense to have more control over it. I’m guessing you would find efficiencies in management vs having it managed out of Ottawa. So it might end up being a wash dollarwise with better service.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It costs more. And why would you assume the same or better service than a force which has been in place for a hundred years? I expect it’d be made up of rejects from RCMP and city forces.

Because it’s managed out of Ottawa. That makes it more of a safe bet than an assumption from experience.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It costs more. And why would you assume the same or better service than a force which has been in place for a hundred years? I expect it’d be made up of rejects from RCMP and city forces.

Yeah I'm not sure where these righteous, untainted, perfect cops will be coming from. Most of them would likely just be ex-RCMP'ers or city cops, at least to start. And why would an existing RCMP or city officer risk give up their existing pension to switch over too?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Looks like all municipalities contract police work. Grande Prairie looks to have switched to local policing. Populationwise probably 70% of the people in AB are covered by local police forces right now. So really we’re talking about rural jurisdictions.

Sounds like the big issue is crappy service. So now we’re paying for 30% of AB’s population to receive inadequate service. Maybe it makes sense to have more control over it. I’m guessing you would find efficiencies in management vs having it managed out of Ottawa. So it might end up being a wash dollarwise with better service.

What crappy service? Nah, the big issue is trying to pretend to be “standing up to Trudeau”.

Why is management from Edmonton any more efficient than management from Ottawa?

It’s a stupid, money wasting idea.

[Bonded]

We are dangerously close to Berta, Berta, Berta chants busting out at random events lol

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Because it’s managed out of Ottawa. That makes it more of a safe bet than an assumption from experience.

Ottawa manages the armed forces, the post office, the appointment of all superior court judges, and they are all fine with no out of the ordinary problems.

You have nothing to suggest that Alberta, which has mismanaged schools, hospitals, environmental protection and forest fires can do anything with cops.

[RogerWilco]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Will be interesting to see if all of the fear mongering in the media over Smith will come true or not. My guess is none of it will come true. But we will see.

By fear monger do you mean the reporting of her own words? Words matter.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Ottawa manages the armed forces, the post office, the appointment of all superior court judges, and they are all fine with no out of the ordinary problems.

You have nothing to suggest that Alberta, which has mismanaged schools, hospitals, environmental protection and forest fires can do anything with cops.

Guess I just have more faith in Alberta than Ottawa from living here.

[MBates]

Originally Posted by Goriders

You’re right on the Ontario comment. Quebec is the same. Looks like our force folded in the 30s.

Sounds like one of the big issues is service or lack there of in rural areas. So more efficient and tailored service.

My take is if I’m paying the same amount of tax or less and everyone gets the same level of service or better why wouldn’t you do it.

1. Do you think that upon the cancellation of the RCMP policing contract for Alberta that career RCMP officers all just remove their patch and put an Alberta Provincial Police patch on and that's the way this goes? I would imagine a significant percentage of current RCMP assigned to Alberta would not switch.

2. Where are you getting the idea that the proposed transition would leave you paying 'the same amount of tax or less' for the same service or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

3. Are you aware that currently the new recruits for the APP would have to find their training in - yep, RCMP Depot in Regina? I wonder, is there any possible scenario that the RCMP would either (a) outright refuse to train APP officers or (b) double what they currently charge to train the APP and our other municipal officers?

On that last point, I wonder if the persistent push by this currently composed UCP party for an APP, in the face of so many Albertans and Alberta municipalities saying outright they do not want it, has something to do with the potential profits to be made for someone who will get the go-ahead to build and operate the new APP training centre and all the related spin-offs.

Anyone remember this sudden cancellation of a project that already had construction equipment on-site?

Provincial police college cancellation shocks Fort Macleod

NDP justice critic said the Conservative government is abandoning rural southern Alberta.

The riding the college would have been in went to the Wildrose in the last election and Rachel Notley said that probably contributed to the decision.

"The single biggest deciding factor was the party that the local MLA belongs and just recently of course that party is no longer the [Progressive] Conservative Party," said Notley.

The solicitor general said the decision would be the same even if the centre was in his own constituency.

Wildrose justice critic Shayne Saskiw sided with Notley, and said the decision was part of a political game.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...leod-1.1176831

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by RogerWilco

By fear monger do you mean the reporting of her own words? Words matter.

Words in politics typically mean nothing. As I said it will be interesting to see if any of it comes to fruition.

My guess is the police force will happen. I’m betting rural municipalities will want that. I would also bet a restructuring and trimming of Alberta Health management is coming.

The pension plan is another story and would depend on a deep analysis. But Albertans contribute 16.5% of funding and take out 10.8%. So we’re burning our money at the moment.

Would you invest $16.50 in something to get $10.80 back? So there might be a big prize to leaving as long as we maintain our CPP contributions.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by MBates

Anyone remember this sudden cancellation of a project that already had construction equipment on-site?

Provincial police college cancellation shocks Fort Macleod

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...leod-1.1176831

Now THAT'S a throwback, I worked on the conceptual stage for this project Totally forgot about this!

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by MBates

1. Do you think that upon the cancellation of the RCMP policing contract for Alberta that career RCMP officers all just remove their patch and put an Alberta Provincial Police patch on and that's the way this goes? I would imagine a significant percentage of current RCMP assigned to Alberta would not switch.

I would bet most would. Especially if they had roots here. It would depend on renumeration, pension retention ect as well.

2. Where are you getting the idea that the proposed transition would leave you paying 'the same amount of tax or less' for the same service or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

I think you would end up paying more but I also think you would get better service. Which I think is the driver in rural areas where crime has skyrocketed.

3. Are you aware that currently the new recruits for the APP would have to find their training in - yep, RCMP Depot in Regina? I wonder, is there any possible scenario that the RCMP would either (a) outright refuse to train APP officers or (b) double what they currently charge to train the APP and our other municipal officers?

I would assume you would set up your own training if you went this route. What does the calgary police force do?

On that last point, I wonder if the persistent push by this currently composed UCP party for an APP, in the face of so many Albertans and Alberta municipalities saying outright they do not want it, has something to do with the potential profits to be made for someone who will get the go-ahead to build and operate the new APP training centre and all the related spin-offs.

I think it’s to have more control over the service.

Anyone remember this sudden cancellation of a project that already had construction equipment on-site?

Provincial police college cancellation shocks Fort Macleod



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...leod-1.1176831

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