2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

But fine, if the Penguins didn't tear it down and rebuild and instead they just traded all their veteran players, accumulated high draft picks over the years while being a basement team, and then built a Stanley Cup winning team around those high draft picks, which totally isn't rebuilding, I hope the Flames do that if Gaudreau leaves. Lol.

They traded their veterans and got other veterans who cost less but scored the same.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They traded their veterans and got other veterans who cost less but scored the same.

They traded or let veterans walk like Jagr, Kovalev, Lang, Straka, Hrdina, Kasparaitis, while also not replacing Lemieux and Stevens when they retired. It's absurd to say they replaced those veterans with equivalent players. Why they did it was budget reasons, but the team was in the playoffs in 2001. They let everyone go, completely bottomed out for 2 years, (2002-2003, 2003-2004) which resulted in Fleury, Malkin and Crosby, then once they had those players already in the system they acquired the veterans you're talking about. Compare the 2001 playoff team to the Crosby team. It's a completely different team.

If the Flames were to draft Bedard this year, and get the 1st overall next season, I think everyone would be fine to see them go after veterans and UFAs in 2024 off-season. But to get those picks (outside of winning the lottery), you need to be prepared to bottom out. Rebuild.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

They traded or let veterans walk like Jagr, Kovalev, Lang, Straka, Hrdina, Kasparaitis, while also not replacing Lemieux and Stevens when they retired. It's absurd to say they replaced those veterans with equivalent players. Why they did it was budget reasons, but the team was in the playoffs in 2001. They let everyone go, completely bottomed out for 2 years, (2002-2003, 2003-2004) which resulted in Fleury, Malkin and Crosby, then once they had those players already in the system they acquired the veterans you're talking about. Compare the 2001 playoff team to the Crosby team. It's a completely different team.

If the Flames were to draft Bedard this year, and get the 1st overall next season, I think everyone would be fine to see them go after veterans and UFAs in 2024 off-season. But to get those picks (outside of winning the lottery), you need to be prepared to bottom out. Rebuild.

They let everyone go, but it wasn’t to rebuild. I agree this was an example of an accidental rebuild that was successful.

But there’s a cap floor now. You can’t trade a vet for Fata six times and be legit.

Plus there’s a lottery. And other bad teams. You can tank all you want and miss the top picks.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They let everyone go, but it wasn’t to rebuild.

So if losing all your veterans while accumulating top picks for several years in a row is not your definition of a rebuild, what is?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

So if losing all your veterans while accumulating top picks for several years in a row is not your definition of a rebuild, what is?

Losing their veterans had nothing to do with the rebuild. It had to do with being bankrupt. They were getting top picks no matter what. They were a bad team.

The usual rebuild is exchanging veterans for picks and prospects. Not cheap labour.

But call it that if you want. It won’t work today.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Losing their veterans had nothing to do with the rebuild. It had to do with being bankrupt. They were getting top picks no matter what. They were a bad team.

The usual rebuild is exchanging veterans for picks and prospects. Not cheap labour.

But call it that if you want. It won’t work today.

You're arguing why they rebuilt and not what a rebuild is. If losing all your veterans as you bottom out and obtain high draft picks isn't a rebuild, then I hope the Flames do whatever that is if they lose Gaudreau. Call it whatever you want.

Also the "it won't work today" lol. You're aware that Tampa traded Richards and Boyle because of their financial struggles, resulting in Hedman and Stamkos? Sort of worked today....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

You're arguing why they rebuilt and not what a rebuild is. If losing all your veterans as you bottom out and obtain high draft picks isn't a rebuild, then I hope the Flames do whatever that is if they lose Gaudreau. Call it whatever you want.

Also the "it won't work today" lol. You're aware that Tampa traded Richards and Boyle because of their financial struggles, resulting in Hedman and Stamkos? Sort of worked today....

“Resulting in” is doing a lot of work. They traded Richards for Smith and Jokinen, and Boyle+ for the 26th pick (Palmieri)+

But I will grant you it’s as close to a normal rebuild as you can get, though the rules were, again, different than now. You can blame the Oilers for that.

[Roof-Daddy]

Rebuilding into a powerhouse team takes a lot of luck on top of everything else.

The Avs had a historically bad season, lost the draft lottery, got pushed all the way down 4th OA and still got the best player in that draft.

The Flames shrewdly pick a future Norris trophy winner 66th overall but he won't sign with them.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug

[Saqe]

Using the luck factor as an argument for not to rebuild through the draft is a strawman. Yes, you need to get lucky but if you're trying to rebuild you need to do it through the draft, essentially suck ass for a few years. The other option is to hope to land franchise centers/defensemen/goalies through free agency or trades, which seems very unlikely.

Does sucking ass for a few years guarantee anything? No, but it seems to be the only way so you need to do it. Luck or no luck.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1544394640425623552

[agulati]

Good value contract for the Avs. Cogliano is a very useful bottom 6 player.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Using the luck factor as an argument for not to rebuild through the draft is a strawman. Yes, you need to get lucky but if you're trying to rebuild you need to do it through the draft, essentially suck ass for a few years. The other option is to hope to land franchise centers/defensemen/goalies through free agency or trades, which seems very unlikely.

Does sucking ass for a few years guarantee anything? No, but it seems to be the only way so you need to do it. Luck or no luck.

Speaking of "strawman" I never used luck as a argument not to rebuild.

In fact, I didn't make an argument either way.

I just noted that rebuilding a powerhouse team takes more than just sucking. You need to get lucky too.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Rebuilding into a powerhouse team takes a lot of luck on top of everything else.

The Avs had a historically bad season, lost the draft lottery, got pushed all the way down 4th OA and still got the best player in that draft.

The Flames shrewdly pick a future Norris trophy winner 66th overall but he won't sign with them.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug

Even if you don’t completely rip it apart not sure why we can’t move short term assets. If Tkachuk mangiapane kylington all resign short term why not trade them?

If the plan isn’t to resign Tanev backlund and Toffolli why not trade them?

Maybe not all at once and if the young guys sign long term fine keep them. But if everyone is looking short term because they aren’t sure if the want to stay on a team losing their best player and their 2nd best player can force his way to free agency in 1 year why fight it. We just stumbled into a rebuild no?

The Avs got unlucky and moved down to 4th pick and got the best player. This doesn’t happen very often picking 12th to 16th though. Losing Johnny signing Kadri and keeping it together likely gets us 15th overall pick. Sorry not getting Makar there

[CliffFletcher]

Foundational rebuilds aren’t a guarantee of putting together a powerhouse roster. But neither is muddling around in the middle for 15 years.

Sports management is all about playing the odds. You need several elite players to build an elite team. Odds are you need to draft most of them. Odds are better to do that if you make several top-4 picks in a short time-frame.

Even if rebuilds usually fail, it’s the best strategy if never rebuilding fails even more often as a strategy.

[Bunk]

This team is a bubble contender with Johnny and everything going right. Without Johnny, they are bubble playoffs probably. Maaaaaaybe you try a couple years more if you can get Kadri or Forsberg, and some other smart signings if Lucic is traded, and/or Monahan is traded or LTIR. Otherwise. Go straight to rebuild.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Bunk

This team is a bubble contender with Johnny and everything going right. Without Johnny, they are bubble playoffs probably. Maaaaaaybe you try a couple years more if you can get Kadri or Forsberg, and some other smart signings if Lucic is traded, and/or Monahan is traded or LTIR. Otherwise. Go straight to rebuild.

The problem with waiting is not all drafts are equal.

Edmonton was unsuccessful for many years of rebuilding and lots of that was due to poor decisions by management and poor drafting after their top pick

But also has a lot to do with the players available at the top of the draft. They have continued to draft terribly and make poor decisions but they are a much better team simply due to who the got

2010 through 2012 Hall Nuge and Yakupov

Vs

2014 through 2016 Mcdavid Draisaitl and Puljujarvi

Even though Puljujarvi is nothing worth tanking for the other 2 are. If Edmonton made picks like the Flames do with their non 1st round picks they could easily be the best team in the NHL

They just have yet to find the Mangiapanes or Andersons or Kylingtons or Fox’s

The Flames need to at least make a run at a top 5 spot in this draft

[Vinny01]

Sandra Pursina on the FAN just mentioned Malkin to Vancouver as a possibility?!?

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Sandra Pursina on the FAN just mentioned Malkin to Vancouver as a possibility?!?

That's a hell of a free pick up if they then move out Miller for good picks/prospects.

I hate it

[Icon]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Sandra Pursina on the FAN just mentioned Malkin to Vancouver as a possibility?!?

Well I mean as a UFA, Malkin to anywhere is a possibility...

I think Malkin signs with the Rangers, unless the Rangers can work out a deal with the Jets that makes sense for one of Sheifele or Dubois instead.

[Toonage]

No idea how they'd do it, but Malkin in Montreal just felt natural.