Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

What sort of magic does the official opposition title bestow upon its leader that means he cant or shouldnt get a clearance? All the other leaders of parties have theirs. Does not affect their ability to do their jobs.

PP not getting security clearance allows him to publicly discuss classified information that he is aware of. So if he learns of politically damaging information about the Trudeau / Carny government, he can criticize without any repercussions.

Just politically motivated, in my opinion.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Yeah, that's it, we're all worried he's the lamest James Bond we've ever seen. It has nothing to do with the possibility that he may be in some way beholden to or compromised by a foreign actor which is driving his resistance to getting clearance because of what it may turn up. It could be under duress or it could be wilfully so, who knows.


It is the dumbest order of operations imaginable that you'd hire someone into a role that you're locked into for four years and then go "Right, that's settled, so about those qualifications and clearances you mentioned during the interview...".

You wouldn't hire someone to do password resets on an IT support desk this way.

If this was the case, would this not have come to light in the FI investigation? I have a hard time believing we dont vet candidates well before the candidate requesting clearance. That seems like it would be a strange order of operations in itself.

[puffnstuff]

If he is aware of it how exactly is it still classified information?

[TheIronMaiden]

Am I crazy, weren't conservatives tripping over themselves to call the LPC the most corrupt government ever when reports about foreign interference surfaced?

Why turn the other cheek now? because it is politically convenient?

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

If he is aware of it how exactly is it still classified information?

there has been more leaks come out recently then my 30 yr old canoe.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

If he is aware of it how exactly is it still classified information?

Ummm. It doesn’t become declassified information if he learns about it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Why do people think he can't speak on the topic if he has clearance? This is absurd. He can't disclose specific details, but this whole schtick of he is gagged by it is wrong. He can't outright lie and claim ignorance, but he can still hold the government to task for not doing enough to combat it.

Also, just because he would have clearance doesn't mean he needs to request briefings on everything. He could still pick and choose what information he would want to know. It's not like CSIS would say, hey you have security clearance, then corner him in a room and force him to hear information.

It just means that it would look worse from a plausible deniability stand point as it removes a layer of access to the information. Instead of grandstanding on the principle of security clearance and information sharing, he'd have to explain why he chose not to hear the information that was easily within his grasp.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Am I crazy, weren't conservatives tripping over themselves to call the LPC the most corrupt government ever when reports about foreign interference surfaced?

Why turn the other cheek now? because it is politically convenient?

You are correct. The Liberals are the most corrupt government ever. That is exactly why PP doesn’t want to get the clearance. He wants to be able to publicly scrutinize the Trudeau / Carny government.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Ummm. It doesn’t become declassified information if he learns about it.

Who is feeding him classified information?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Who is feeding him classified information?

See post 19565.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

According to Hogue there was really nothing to worry about. As has been pointed out by others earlier by posters. Why is it so critical to have it now that the report has been published. Unless you dont accept the findings of the report.

How do you feel about the report and the large difference from the PM comments at the hearing of all the Conservative interference he pointed out and the lack of any of it in Hogues report?

I dunno, there appears to be info to be shared, but PP can't see it. Clearly we can't either. So I'm not sure what I should comment on. But to suggest there isn't even smoke from the report would be wrong.

She did note that there are legitimate concerns about some parliamentarians potentially having problematic relationships with foreign officials, exercising poor judgment, behaving naively and perhaps displaying questionable ethics.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/for...port-1.7442817


I presume the info on who and what is what PP could see if he had clearance, which, you know, sounds like important things to know.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Am I crazy, weren't conservatives tripping over themselves to call the LPC the most corrupt government ever when reports about foreign interference surfaced?

Why turn the other cheek now? because it is politically convenient?

FI was a piece of it. The plethora of scandals are the other piece, please don't tell me there is not extreme corruption in our current sitting government.

The whole FI situation stinks still. The findings in the Hogue report and everything the government has openly talked about in the house just dont line up.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

You are correct. The Liberals are the most corrupt government ever. That is exactly why PP doesn’t want to get the clearance. He wants to be able to publicly scrutinize the Trudeau / Carny government.

Bull####, he doesn't want to act on what he knows is true. There is as much interference in the CPC as in the LCP.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

FI was a piece of it. The plethora of scandals are the other piece, please don't tell me there is not extreme corruption in our current sitting government.

The whole FI situation stinks still. The findings in the Hogue report and everything the government has openly talked about in the house just dont line up.

Like what?

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Like what?

watch the PM's testimony from the public hearing on the matter (was also discussed here in length several months ago) and read the report I posted from the Hogue report. (easier to find a coles notes as the report is like 300 pages long.)

[puffnstuff]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

See post 19565.

So there is information in that guys canoe and pp has to be in the canoe to see it?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Bull####, he doesn't want to act on what he knows is true. There is as much interference in the CPC as in the LCP.

What actions would he take as the opposition?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

So there is information in that guys canoe and pp has to be in the canoe to see it?

Correct. And the Liberals are up #### creek. Without a paddle.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

If this was the case, would this not have come to light in the FI investigation? I have a hard time believing we dont vet candidates well before the candidate requesting clearance. That seems like it would be a strange order of operations in itself.

So before you request clearance, you think they... go through the process of vetting you to the extent of the 'top secret' clearance process anyway? Is that honestly how you think any of this works?

Hogue said in her final report that while the leaders of the Liberals, NDP, Bloc Québécois and the Green Party now have top-secret clearance, Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre declined to get his, although his chief of staff has obtained clearance.

She said that while Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has directed the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, CSIS, and other officials to try to inform Poilievre of possible threats to his party and its members, keeping the Conservative leader properly informed "may be challenging" unless he gets top-secret clearance.

"The prime minister testified that chiefs of staff have more limited authorities compared to party leaders and are not accountable to the public in the same way," the report said.

Poilievre maintains that receiving the security clearance would leave him unable to speak openly or challenge the Liberal government.

"Unlike others who are willing to limit their ability to hold the government accountable on important issues of national security, Mr. Poilievre will not be gagged and unable to speak or act on information he may receive," a Poilievre spokesman said Tuesday.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fin...ence-1.7443597

PP is pulling the DJT "I can't release my tax returns while I'm being audited by the IRS" move, and in so doing, PP is avoiding transparency and accountability to the public. His claim isn't at all based in fact, but to the credulous it sounds like a plausible objection.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

What actions would he take as the opposition?

The leader of the party would read the report, act on the findings, expose and remove people in violation of the trust of the Canadian people. I would be less worried about "winning" then I would be making sure that Canadines are safe from foreign interference.