[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Nope just the posters that cry about negativity about everything that isn’t way over the top delusion.

Hackey did none of the things in Burning Beards post.

Again, we can read. This is the equivalent of all of us watching a moose cross the road and you are adamant we are all wrong, it is in fact a duck.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by TOfan

How many ‘untradable’ players have we seen get traded? Luongo, Karlson, Erickson, Neal, Lucic, Hayes…..? It happens.

We might need to pump the breaks on a ‘big’ Kylington deal too. Lot of question marks there. I’m a fan and pulling for him but he still has plenty to prove before he lands his big ticket.

Do you think Markstrom could be traded?

It would solve a lot of problems on the salary cap front. Wolf needs an opportunity and it would be a shame to lose a young goalie who took a step like Vladar did last year.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Do you think Markstrom could be traded?

It would solve a lot of problems on the salary cap front. Wolf needs an opportunity and it would be a shame to lose a young goalie who took a step like Vladar did last year.

I would say it’s a long shot. Hellybuyck and Gibson are already on the market, among others. No one’s biting on G’s either at the moment it seems. Coming off a rough season, I’d hate to see what the return would be.

Frankly, I doubt the Flames would want to trade Markstrom. He’s not nearly as bad as he was for 3/4 of last year. Incidentally, I think they have a pretty good set up as is being able to move Wolf up and down freely.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Again, we can read. This is the equivalent of all of us watching a moose cross the road and you are adamant we are all wrong, it is in fact a duck.

Wrong, it is the equivalent of a Moose walking across the road and you and couple of buddies making up a story about how he actually flew across the road.

You are right the evidence is clear as day he never did what Burning Beards said, so you can continue to lie or just admit the facts.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TOfan

How many ‘untradable’ players have we seen get traded? Luongo, Karlson, Erickson, Neal, Lucic, Hayes…..? It happens.

We might need to pump the breaks on a ‘big’ Kylington deal too. Lot of question marks there. I’m a fan and pulling for him but he still has plenty to prove before he lands his big ticket.

Generally, when players are deemed untradable, it means for value.

Anyone is indeed tradable, often along with draft capital or for other untradable players.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Do you think Markstrom could be traded?

It would solve a lot of problems on the salary cap front. Wolf needs an opportunity and it would be a shame to lose a young goalie who took a step like Vladar did last year.

Markstrom is likely tradable, assuming he consents, but the return is likely a negative player of some sort.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

How many ‘untradable’ players have we seen get traded? Luongo, Karlson, Erickson, Neal, Lucic, Hayes…..? It happens.

We might need to pump the breaks on a ‘big’ Kylington deal too. Lot of question marks there. I’m a fan and pulling for him but he still has plenty to prove before he lands his big ticket.

That is actually the Flames problem. They have historically insisted that someone prove they are going to be good and then they hand out a monster contract. Only good long term contracts they have had since 2015 have been given to guys who had not proved at that point that they were worth the money (Gaudreau, Lindholm, Hanifin, Rasmus) All four of those guys outperformed their contracts. Even Monahan outperformed his contract for the first 4 years until he ran into injury problems.

Compare that to the old guys who get long term contracts

Neal/Lucic - drastically underperformed the contract
Frolik - at best performed up to his contract
Coleman - under performing his contract value
Backlund - probably the only one you could say is performing at or above his contract.

Mangiapane looks good as a 23 and 24 year old, Flames have no cap space because of old guys, have to bridge, now at best he can perform to his 5.9 million number. If they sign him after either of those seasons to a long term deal the number probably starts with a 3 (say 3.5) and he outperforms the contract, even a 43 point season looks good at any number under 4 million.

Same story with Tkachuk, even if they wanted to they could not sign him longterm due to cap space.

I hope they throw a 7 year deal at Kylington sooner rather than later.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I hope they throw a 7 year deal at Kylington sooner rather than later.

It works out most of the time, but can you imagine if we signed Bouma to a 7 year deal after his 34P? or Colborne after posting 19G, 44P? I'd rather keep the really long term deals for the team's core players, instead of using them to try and save $500k off their value in the open market.

4-5 years seems like the best term for Kylington IMO

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

It works out most of the time, but can you imagine if we signed Bouma to a 7 year deal after his 34P? or Colborne after posting 19G, 44P? I'd rather keep the really long term deals for the team's core players, instead of using them to try and save $500k off their value in the open market.

4-5 years seems like the best term for Kylington IMO

Well you end up saving a couple million on the open-market, not 500K. I would be fine if they were judicious with tossing them out if they just refused to sign guys in their 30’s to longterm contracts. Those contracts almost never work out, definitely they never outperform the contract over the term and prevent a team from signing young players to longterm contracts.

Salary cap NHL you want your guys in their 20’s on longterm contracts and your guys in their 30’s on short term contracts. It is way harder to find examples of guys being given longterm contracts in their 20’s that have busted out than it is to find guys in the 30’s who have.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It is way harder to find examples of guys being given longterm contracts in their 20’s that have busted out than it is to find guys in the 30’s who have.

That’s likely due more to the fact that long term contracts are generally only handed out to guys who are elite/top performers, and most players in their 30s are within 8 years of retirement, regardless of how long they’re signed for.

If long term contracts were actually given more often to guys in their 20s that had flashes of talent but weren’t elite/top performers, you’d see more guys on long term contracts in their 20s busting out.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I would say it’s a long shot. Hellybuyck and Gibson are already on the market, among others. No one’s biting on G’s either at the moment it seems. Coming off a rough season, I’d hate to see what the return would be.

Frankly, I doubt the Flames would want to trade Markstrom. He’s not nearly as bad as he was for 3/4 of last year. Incidentally, I think they have a pretty good set up as is being able to move Wolf up and down freely.

I'm told as well, that the NMC was huge in Markstrom's decision to sign in Calgary. He's not giving that up lightly (especially with a new baby).

[Itse]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

That’s likely due more to the fact that long term contracts are generally only handed out to guys who are elite/top performers, and most players in their 30s are within 8 years of retirement, regardless of how long they’re signed for.

If long term contracts were actually given more often to guys in their 20s that had flashes of talent but weren’t elite/top performers, you’d see more guys on long term contracts in their 20s busting out.

I wonder whether they'd be busts any more often though.

'Cause those elite long term contracts end up being bad all the time.

[Hackey]

So where does Lindholm actually rank as a center?

1. McDavid
2. Mackinnon
3. Draisaitl
4. Matthews
5. Crosby
6. Point
7. Barkov
8. Hughes
9. Eichel
10. Zibanejad
11. Stamkos
12. Malkin
13. Thompson
14. Hischier
15. Hintz
16. Petterson
17. Aho
18. Kopitar
19. Stutzle
20. Larkin
21. Tavares
22. Bedard
23. Dubois
24. Zegras
25. Scheifele
26. Lindholm
27. Sukzuki
28. Cozens
29. Nelson
30. Thomas
31. Schenn
32. Beniers
33. Stephenson
34. Hertl
35. Couture

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Hackey

So where does Lindholm actually rank as a center?

1. McDavid
2. Mackinnon
3. Draisaitl
4. Matthews
5. Crosby
6. Point
7. Barkov
8. Hughes
9. Eichel
10. Zibanejad
11. Stamkos
12. Malkin
13. Thompson
14. Hischier
15. Hintz
16. Petterson
17. Aho
18. Kopitar
19. Stutzle
20. Larkin
21. Tavares
22. Bedard
23. Dubois
24. Zegras
25. Scheifele
26. Lindholm
27. Sukzuki
28. Cozens
29. Nelson
30. Thomas
31. Schenn
32. Beniers
33. Stephenson
34. Hertl
35. Couture

Where to begin...
You have Bedard ahead of him and he hadn't even played an NHL game yet. It's debatable if Draisaitl is even a C as he spends more time on the wing. Zegras has shown nothing to indicate he is currently better than Lindholm. Dubois is not better than Lindholm. I would take Lindholm over Malkin any day right now, Malkin is made of glass. You have clearly made a case though that Lindholm is a top line C so there is that.

[Nelson]

I’d put these centres in front of Lindholm. So, I’d call him the 24th best centre in the NHL, solidly a top line centre.

Thompson
Cozens
Aho
MacKinnon
Hintz
Larkin
McDavid
Draisaitl
Barkov
Hischier
Hughes
Zibanejad
Stutzle
Crosby
Malkin
Thomas
Point
Matthews
Tavares
Pettersson
Miller
Eichel
Schieffele

I would put Lindholm ahead of these other very good centres.

Zegras
Kopitar
Dubois
Suzuki
O’Reilly
Horvat
Hertl
Couture
Beniers
Cirelli
Stephenson
Karlsson
Kuznetsov
Backstrom

And then I’d say Bedard is an unknown at this point.

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Hackey

So where does Lindholm actually rank as a center?

1. McDavid
2. Mackinnon
3. Draisaitl
4. Matthews
5. Crosby
6. Point
7. Barkov
8. Hughes
9. Eichel
10. Zibanejad
11. Stamkos
12. Malkin
13. Thompson
14. Hischier
15. Hintz
16. Petterson
17. Aho
18. Kopitar
19. Stutzle
20. Larkin
21. Tavares
22. Bedard
23. Dubois
24. Zegras
25. Scheifele
26. Lindholm
27. Sukzuki
28. Cozens
29. Nelson
30. Thomas
31. Schenn
32. Beniers
33. Stephenson
34. Hertl
35. Couture

So, I have Cozens higher than Lindholm, and I have Zegras and Kopitar below Lindholm. Other than that, we pretty much agree on where Lindholm stands, although I didn’t attempt to actually rank the centres.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Where to begin...
You have Bedard ahead of him and he hadn't even played an NHL game yet. It's debatable if Draisaitl is even a C as he spends more time on the wing. Zegras has shown nothing to indicate he is currently better than Lindholm. Dubois is not better than Lindholm. I would take Lindholm over Malkin any day right now, Malkin is made of glass. You have clearly made a case though that Lindholm is a top line C so there is that.

Was his list based on current skill level for one year, or trade value? Is the current contract factored in?

Bedard would top many of these players on current trade value.

Malkin’s value, as you indicate, would deviate greatly depending on how the list is defined.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Was his list based on current skill level for one year, or trade value? Is the current contract factored in?

Bedard would top many of these players on current trade value.

Malkin’s value, as you indicate, would deviate greatly depending on how the list is defined.

I took his list as current impact as an NHL centre. Bedard would top all these guys trade value wise.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

So where does Lindholm actually rank as a center?

1. McDavid
2. Mackinnon
3. Draisaitl
4. Matthews
5. Crosby
6. Point
7. Barkov
8. Hughes
9. Eichel
10. Zibanejad
11. Stamkos
12. Malkin
13. Thompson
14. Hischier
15. Hintz
16. Petterson
17. Aho
18. Kopitar
19. Stutzle
20. Larkin
21. Tavares
22. Bedard
23. Dubois
24. Zegras
25. Scheifele
26. Lindholm
27. Sukzuki
28. Cozens
29. Nelson
30. Thomas
31. Schenn
32. Beniers
33. Stephenson
34. Hertl
35. Couture

Probably no need to post the same list as you did two pages ago. We get it.

You can haggle over placement of specific players and really make no point at all other than revealing your own biases.

The question that should be asked is how important is the player to the team. Not subjective and meaningless rankings about where they may fit in across the league.

[Hot_Flatus]

The worst thing about the situation Treliving has put the team in with so many significant contracts expiring in the same season is that the team has already past the point of no return and are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Maybe you get lucky and a Hanifin hockey trade falls into your lap in October after an injury. Maybe you are finally able to snag someone like Lindholm at the 11th hour next June on a massive, ill advised deal, but I don't see any of the other UFAs re-upping at that point.