[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Speaking of points proved, you’re acknowledging there is more than one way to build a cup winning team.

Of course there is. My point is take the most probable path. Don't give me an outlier and say hey this could be us. Why don't you go invest your entire salary into lotto tickets? Someone won it could also be you. Hoping the Flames magically land the greatest goalie of all time and two hall of fame dmen in the next 5 years and then start playing the trap seems unlikely.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Why don't you go invest your entire salary into lotto tickets? Someone won it could also be you. Hoping the Flames magically land the greatest goalie of all time and two hall of fame dmen in the next 5 years and then start playing the trap seems unlikely.

I find the irony in this post pretty amusing.


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[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Of course there is. My point is take the most probable path. Don't give me an outlier and say hey this could be us. Why don't you go invest your entire salary into lotto tickets? Someone won it could also be you. Hoping the Flames magically land the greatest goalie of all time and two hall of fame dmen in the next 5 years and then start playing the trap seems unlikely.

Okay, let’s look at it from another lens. Many will say you need an elite blue line to win and then the penguins won back to back with what could be argued as a league average blue line. Pick what take it is you wish to spin but your ‘probable’ idea, whatever that is, isn’t any more likely to win than any other.

Hawks also proved you don’t need an elite goalie (Niemi) which was a long held truism.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Okay, let’s look at it from another lens. Many will say you need an elite blue line to win and then the penguins won back to back with what could be argued as a league average blue line. Pick what take it is you wish to spin but your ‘probable’ idea, whatever that is, isn’t any more likely to win than any other.

So you just named a team with some of the most elite defensive talent in NHL history then a team with some of the most elite offensive talent in NHL history and your take away on how either of those teams relates to the Flames is? You can't compare their similarities while ignoring their differences and expect a similar outcome.

Just because the Flames and Devils lack an elite number 1 center doesn't mean they can have similar results when we have to ignore we also lack a Brodeur, Stevens, and Neidermayer as well.

Maybe if we land a Crosby and Malkin our lack of an elite number 1 dman will be less important as well.

[Hackey]

Again, your point is tou can win with holes? Yes of course. The Hawks were one of the deepest all around teams of the last 30 years. Are the Flames even remotely close to that? The Hawks lacked an elite goalie and the Flames lack an elite goalie...therefore they must be the same. Good theory.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

So you just named a team with some of the most elite defensive talent in NHL history then a team with some of the most elite offensive talent in NHL history and your take away on how either of those teams relates to the Flames is? You can't compare their similarities while ignoring their differences and expect a similar outcome.

Just because the Flames and Devils lack an elite number 1 center doesn't mean they can have similar results when we have to ignore we also lack a Brodeur, Stevens, and Neidermayer as well.

Maybe if we land a Crosby and Malkin our lack of an elite number 1 dman will be less important as well.

Originally Posted by Hackey

Again, your point is tou can win with holes? Yes of course. The Hawks were one of the deepest all around teams of the last 30 years. Are the Flames even remotely close to that? The Hawks lacked an elite goalie and the Flames lack an elite goalie...therefore they must be the same. Good theory.

Never once did I say I think the Flames are cup contenders. You’re confused.

What I am saying is there are far too many variables in building a team, a cup contending team, especially over the course of 8 years in the context of a Lindholm extension.

If the Flames extend Lindholm for 8 years what’s their lineup in, say, 2027? How do you know they don’t have elite players?

[Burning Beard]

I'll never understand waking up on a Sunday morning and spending countless time arguing with fans of a hockey team about how dire everything is and terrible the team they cheer for is. Must be a better allotment of time.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I'll never understand waking up on a Sunday morning and spending countless time arguing with fans of a hockey team about how dire everything is and terrible the team they cheer for is. Must be a better allotment of time.

Nobody is doing that.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Nobody is doing that.

Apparently Spurs thinks the board can't read.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I'll never understand waking up on a Sunday morning and spending countless time arguing with fans of a hockey team about how dire everything is and terrible the team they cheer for is. Must be a better allotment of time.

A number of discussions on the board leave me thinking this.

People don't get enough petty arguments in their own lives already? Like.. lol.

But yeah if you don't like the team and have no hope why are you coming here and making an account?

You'd have to, like, relish wasting your time.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

The people who said that about Eichel (Dino) are rightfully mocked now.

They were not mocked at the time, which is the point.

Hindsight isn't actually 20/20. Hindsight is biased by subsequent knowledge. Considerably many people go from ‘You'll never win with X’ straight to ‘I always knew X had it in him’ as soon as player X wins the Stanley Cup. People even did this with Ovechkin, for crying out loud. People don't like being proven wrong, and some people, rather than admit they were wrong, will make up a fairy tale in their heads in which they were always right and never had to change their minds.

Note: I am not comparing Lindholm with Ovechkin in any way. I am pointing out a general tendency shared by many hockey fans, including some people in the media who are ostensibly paid to know better.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I'll never understand waking up on a Sunday morning and spending countless time arguing with fans of a hockey team about how dire everything is and terrible the team they cheer for is. Must be a better allotment of time.

Nothing kicks off my day better than a double espresso and an argument.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Apparently Spurs thinks the board can't read.

Nope just the posters that cry about negativity about everything that isn’t way over the top delusion.

Hackey did none of the things in Burning Beards post.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by TOfan

If the Flames extend Lindholm for 8 years what’s their lineup in, say, 2027? How do you know they don’t have elite players?

That's where you're really going to have trouble. We know they will have Huberdeau, Kadri and Lindholm. Probably a few more big contracts by then, like Andersson, Kylington. Hopefully Wolf and a couple of the new guys by then. Then the rest of the roster. Then hopefully the elite guy is on an entry deal so you can scratch and claw some salary for him over the summer. But if he's on a real deal, well hopefully you can get something good in a trade.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

They were not mocked at the time, which is the point.

Except they were. Most people around the hockey world and plenty of people on here thought Eichel was an elite #1C that would eventually take that step to the elite level.
You may not have felt that way, but it's not hindsight when others did and they turned out to be right.

As for the point, the poster was implying that because X became a champion, Y can too and that's a silly way to evaluate any player.
I like Lindholm, but his ceiling isn't Eichel's.
Saying because Eichel did something, Lindholm can isn't a point at all.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Redrum

That's where you're really going to have trouble. We know they will have Huberdeau, Kadri and Lindholm. Probably a few more big contracts by then, like Andersson, Kylington. Hopefully Wolf and a couple of the new guys by then. Then the rest of the roster. Then hopefully the elite guy is on an entry deal so you can scratch and claw some salary for him over the summer. But if he's on a real deal, well hopefully you can get something good in a trade.

How many ‘untradable’ players have we seen get traded? Luongo, Karlson, Erickson, Neal, Lucic, Hayes…..? It happens.

We might need to pump the breaks on a ‘big’ Kylington deal too. Lot of question marks there. I’m a fan and pulling for him but he still has plenty to prove before he lands his big ticket.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by TOfan

How many ‘untradable’ players have we seen get traded? Luongo, Karlson, Erickson, Neal, Lucic, Hayes…..? It happens.

That's true. Once we trade the elite guy away, we could use the return to hopefully get rid of one of those contracts.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Except they were. Most people around the hockey world and plenty of people on here thought Eichel was an elite #1C that would eventually take that step to the elite level.
You may not have felt that way, but it's not hindsight when others did and they turned out to be right.

As for the point, the poster was implying that because X became a champion, Y can too and that's a silly way to evaluate any player.
I like Lindholm, but his ceiling isn't Eichel's.
Saying because Eichel did something, Lindholm can isn't a point at all.

You’re right, it is a silly way of evaluating a player but that’s not what I did.

[Spurs]

Nm

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

As for the point, the poster was implying that because X became a champion, Y can too and that's a silly way to evaluate any player.

Actually, any player can become a champion if he happens to be on the right team. Gary freaking Leeman has his name on the Stanley Cup. The question is in what role and under what circumstances.

Incidentally, Jack Eichel played only 67 games for Vegas last year, and scored less than a point per game in the games he did play. I don't see that as ‘taking that next step to the elite level’.

He did score a lot of assists in the playoffs – led the league in that category. But he scored fewer assists per game than McDavid, Bouchard, Fox, Devon Toews, or Dmitry Orlov, none of whom happened to make it past the second round. There's a reason the Conn Smythe went to Marchessault and not Eichel.