Former Flames player performance thread - 2022/23 season

[manwiches]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I commented on the C thing...he was speculating Tkachuk didn't sign because they wouldn't give him the C

Also, he said he wanted to sign long term last may to so take his word with a grain of salt

The Tkachuk's have a reputation as mercenaries, looking after their needs above all. There is nothing wrong with that, and I am far from salty ex-girlfriend on this subject. But I also tend to lean that what Tkachuk said was also lip service.

His old man wrote the book on negotiating contracts. There's little doubt in my mind he's been coached all his life on how to deal with that exact situation

[JohnnyB]

I still suspect Florida became his destination after the first game they played down there following Bennett being traded. The enthusiasm with which he talked about Bennett's home and how Bennett raved about life there made it seem like he was sold on it then.

Who knows, maybe if the Flames had kept Bennett, or traded him to Winnipeg, they would still have Tkachuk too.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It doesn’t matter what his words were. Money talk.
Bottom line Treliving has an opportunity to sign their franchise player long term and gave in and signed him 3 yrs. That gave him the right to walk. Unless of course Treliving didn’t believe in his talent. Talent evaluation is one of his weakness.
One of the many screwed ups by Treliving. The franchise is arguably worse than when he found it. Time for new face.

When the Oilers gave a very young McDavid that huge long-term contract, there was a lot of discussion a long the lines of too much or not enough money, but duration was an obvious decision. It was not so obvious with young Draisaitl, but they made the commitment to long-term big salary, after making the decision that he had a likelihood of further development into a long term high producing player.

Clearly Treliving et al didn’t see young Tkachuk the same way and had doubts about whether he would continue an upward trajectory. Maybe that’s also why they didn’t re-negotiate Gaudreau’s contract a few years ago. They would rather save the long-term high salaries for free-agent players in their early 30’s coming off career-high production seasons.

[Ashasx]

Why shouldn't Tkachuk look out for himself?

Even with that, at $9.5 million, he's providing a ridiculous amount of surplus value to the Panthers.

[edslunch]

Any other former Flames out there? I think we’re all up to date on MT.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I had always assumed it was a three-year deal because Tkachuk wouldn't do longer, but we also don't know what kind of money he wanted for a longer deal then. Maybe he wanted 9 or something, which would have been a lot for him back then. That would make more sense of Treliving's comments.

I agree -- Brady got $8.2M AAV so I think Tkachuk would have wanted $9M at minimum to commit for 8 years out of ELC. That would have been a pretty big overpayment at the time.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

I get it that Brads a GM and I'm not, but 3 years with a $9m qualifying year is all kinds of dumb and dumber, it's not rocket science, 2 years or long term for a star player.

Keep the team together my ass, how about this Brad, if you're still around how about use your young players in the system as needed to save cap space instead of signing useless players like you did with Rieder, Rinaldo, Yelesin and Davidson that year.

Yup, it's really a shame that Brad devised such a boneheaded contract that no other team has ever ever ever had to do.

Except Meiere and Boeser and Point and Werenski and McAvoy and Laine and DeBrincat...who all signed similar structures that same off-season.

Or you shell out a lot more for a 6 year deal (Marner, Rantanen, Provorov, Konecny, Matthews 5yrs). The 8 year deals signed that off-season were all done with 1 yr remaining on ELCs (Chabot, Hischier, Keller).

The one GM wizardry deal that summer was Kyle Connor.

And those 'useless' players were all approx. league minimum, so they really have zero impact on the cap (unless you want to play shorthanded or something).

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's a possibility seeing his brother did that. However I just don't understand why Treliving wouldn't have worked harder to make that work. The 3 year deal was always going to be worst case scenario for the Flames as you never want to give the player the option to walk in his prime.

Treliving has been on record saying that he wanted to build as deep of a team as he could for that window (ending in 2022).

I actually don’t even completely disagree with that tactic. Personally, I would go the route of re-signing your franchise players for as long as possible though as soon as you can. But both methods have their pros and cons.

In the end though, it was Treliving’s execution that ultimately failed him, not his strategy. What good is cap space if all you do is sign or trade for mediocre players to long term deals? Brad loves his complimentary players, but his vision and assessment of how they’ll fit on the team is abysmal. It’s very possible that the byproduct of those numerous mistakes and lost assets lead to him losing his 2 franchise players.

Maybe if he had more cap space or assets to create more cap space (i.e. draft picks), perhaps he wouldn’t have felt the need to pinch those pennies and he could then sign Tkachuk (2019) and Gaudreau (2021) to those long term deals when he had a chance.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I agree -- Brady got $8.2M AAV so I think Tkachuk would have wanted $9M at minimum to commit for 8 years out of ELC. That would have been a pretty big overpayment at the time.

The percentage when a team backs up the brinks truck for a RFA and makes an overpayment and it remains an overpayment throughout the duration of the contract is much lower than the number of UFA contracts that are overpayments throughout their duration. I would be comfortable with overpayments or perceived overpayments to guys in their early 20’s, especially the guys that look like they could be elite like a 21 year old coming off a nearly PPG season in the NHL.

The Flames did not have 9 million plus a year to give Tkachuk that offseason for a 7 or 8 year contract, thus why they did not. They had locked down Neal at 5.75 million the off-season before and had moved that contract to secure Lucic for 5.25 million for the next 4 seasons, still had Derek Ryan at 3.125 and Frolik at 4.3. So Lucic, Frolik and Ryan made it difficult, if not impossible to sign Tkachuk to a longterm contract. The Flames decided to go with Lucic, Frolik and Ryan type UFA signings instead.

The Flames have continued this approach recently locking Coleman, Kadri, Huberdeau for longterm contracts.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Matthew Tkachuk is a friggin beast. Easily my favourite player in the league.

Where was this outlandish statement after we got swept by the Oilers last year. lol

I can't wait to see Molasseschuk in the playoffs this year!!

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Any other former Flames out there? I think we’re all up to date on MT.

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/fo...-backup-goalie

[Kolsch]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Any other former Flames out there? I think we’re all up to date on MT.

Mark Jankowski got a short handed goal to go along with another assist the other day. I think SHG are his super power.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Clearly Treliving et al didn’t see young Tkachuk the same way and had doubts about whether he would continue an upward trajectory. Maybe that’s also why they didn’t re-negotiate Gaudreau’s contract a few years ago. They would rather save the long-term high salaries for free-agent players in their early 30’s coming off career-high production seasons.

They choose three years because they could go 8 (due to cap reasons), and Tkachuk balked at anything else if it wasn't going to be 8.

Re-negotiating contracts is not allowed in the NHL.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Any other former Flames out there? I think we’re all up to date on MT.

Dougie Hamilton quietly having a career year on a great Devils team. Wonder what kind of playoffs he will have?

[boogerz]

Bennett will finish the season with at least 0.6ppg (50 points per 82 games) if he goes pointless in Florida's last two games.

Not too shabby for $4.4M.

He's at 104 points in 144 games with the Panthers since he was traded

[edslunch]

Tkachuk wasn’t too noticeable in the Leafs-Panthers game but Ryan Lomberg was everywhere

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Bennett will finish the season with at least 0.6ppg (50 points per 82 games) if he goes pointless in Florida's last two games.

Not too shabby for $4.4M.

He's at 104 points in 144 games with the Panthers since he was traded

He has 40 points...I get you are using pace but the guy never plays a full season, not really a strength. And he won't be playing in Florida's last two games because he is injured again.

"Perennial 50 point player" who has never scored 50 points

[dino7c]

Looks like it comes down to Thursday for the Panthers assuming other games go as expected

Islanders/Pens have Habs, Hawks, and Jackets

[Sylvanfan]

If the Flames had a player who's production was 15 in 10 than 49 in 71 and 40 in 63....he would be lamented as a declining asset that should have been sold high on.

[dino7c]

Bennett is a good player...an okay contract but he likely wont play a full season ever if he plays the way he needs to to be effective

You pay 4.4 but can't count on 82

Can't really make a PPG argument with a player who will never play a full season IMO.

4.4 for 40 points is okay...they could have used him tonight