[Trade] Flames trade Baertschi to VAN for a 2015 2nd round pick (Baertschi requested trade)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Rikster

I don't think criticism from any source regarding player development is offside when you consider that the Flames have missed the post season the past 5 seasons and 12 of the past 17 and might not get in again this season.

Not sure I'd go back 17 years when talking about development on a team with a 20 and 21 year old leading the way.

True Monahan was straight in, but he's been developed on the job. Gaudreau was brought into numerous development camps but sure was done away from the AHL.

But a year with Ferland, Jooris, Granlund all playing prominent roles is an odd time to suggest the Flames can't develop players.

I think Baertschi himself had a failure to launch. But then I've said all along that I can't stand the blame the coach view on this site with prospects. Just go do it. He didn't. He hasn't. I'm starting to think he won't.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Rikster

The knee jerk and predictable reaction is to attack the player, the more productive reaction would be to examine the organizations player development program and ask why has the organization failed so often to develop its prospects?

Or ask how, during the same time frame, so many other prospects developed and why didn't this one?

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I don't understand how Baertchi can actually think this way. How can you possibly put any blame on a team not knowing what's best for you when the team in question is about to make the playoffs when they should of been battling for last place.

This team knows what to do in order to have success. Have success with 16 mil in cap space no less. The Flames have a rookie about to win the Calder trophy, so it's not like they've been mishandling their youth.

Good riddens. Even if Baertchi turns into a top 6 NHLer, the Flames will be better off without him in the locker room. We have a great group of guys right now and they've shown nothing but determination and loyalty to their club.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Rikster

From the interviews I've seen, Sven has been very professional when asked about the situation in Calgary and feels that Vancouver's puck possession style of play is more suited to his game than the north/south dump and chase game the Flames play....

How can anyone who has watched the Flames this year suggest they're a dump and chase team?

It's a baffling comment.

[Robbob]

the easy answer is that they are grasping at straws

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Rikster

The knee jerk and predictable reaction is to attack the player, the more productive reaction would be to examine the organizations player development program and ask why has the organization failed so often to develop its prospects?

Did that, came to the conclusion that in Sven's tenure, the Flames have been very successful at developing their prospects. So then moved on to very easily seeing that Sven is currently a young man who doesn't get it yet, and is only looking outwardly to blame versus internally on what he can control and improve.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

How can anyone who has watched the Flames this year suggest they're a dump and chase team?

It's a baffling comment.

A counter attack, generate on the rush team might be exactly the environment where a 'scorer' could flourish. Rikster et al may be in for a bit of a surprise in the next couple weeks...

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

How can anyone who has watched the Flames this year suggest they're a dump and chase team?

It's a baffling comment.

The players

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Rikster

The knee jerk and predictable reaction is to attack the player, the more productive reaction would be to examine the organizations player development program and ask why has the organization failed so often to develop its prospects?

The historical failure to develop players is not relevant. What is key is pinpointing if there is a problem under the current regime. Given the # of players that have graduated to the NHL level - it appears there isn't.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rikster

The knee jerk and predictable reaction is to attack the player, the more productive reaction would be to examine the organizations player development program and ask why has the organization failed so often to develop its prospects?

Okay, so now you want to move the goalposts and talk about Calgary's player development?

Baertschi was drafted in 2011. During that time:

Brodie, a 4th round draft pick and the 45th defenseman taken in his draft year, has developed into a top-pairing defenseman.

Bouma, a 3rd round pick, has developed into not just an energetic, bottom 6er, but has also developed his offense to the point where he is getting more points in the NHL than he did in junior.

Gaudreau, another 4th round pick, is a Calder candidate and has more points than Vrbata

Monahan, in his sophomore season, is not only in the top 10 in the NHL in goals, but is getting comparisons, around the league, to the best centres in the game.

Jooris, an undrafted free agent, is not only playing a defensively-responsible game, he has chipped in with 12 goals and 24 points (more than Horvat in fewer games).

Granlund, drafted 32 picks after Baertschi in the same draft, now has more goals than Baertschi, is better defensively, and was one of the reasons Baertschi was traded, as Granlund passed him on the depth chart.

Ferland, drafted 133rd overall in 2010, also passed Baertschi on the depth chart.

So no, the Flames do not have any problems with their player development. In fact, development has been so good over the last few years that the Flames' prospect depth was ranked #2 this year.

And more directly pertinent to this conversation, several prospects have developed right past Baertschi, making it easy for the organization to decide to trade him, now that he is approaching waiver eligibility.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rikster

Keeping in mind that the Flames farm team is a non playoff team this season and is one of the most penalized teams in the league, after listening to the entire interview he sounds like most players do who have been traded from a struggling team to a team fighting for first place.

Keeping in mind that the Flames have been graduating prospects from the farm team all season and have one of the youngest teams in the AHL, it's no wonder that they fell in the standings.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Of all the years in recent memory to bash the way the Flames develop their players this actually might be the absolute worst time to do so. The Flames aren't perfect, but one look at the roster kind of gives you an idea that they're doing okay.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

The players

???

maybe you meant "the player"

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Mony

"I was just so excited. That’s what I wanted, to be in a place where they appreciate the way I play and help me out with whatever I need and don’t try to make me something I’m not."

Sven had similar comments while with the Flames about "playing the game his way". At the time you hope it was a misquote or he didn't really mean it the way it sounded, but obviously that was not the case. The kid needs a complete brain transplant if he's going to be an NHLer. KHL in 3 years would be guess. Good luck Canucks, you'll need it. At least you didn't spend a 1st rounder on him.

[saillias]

I'd be worried about my own team's scouting and prospect development if I was a Canucks fan. The same team that pissed away a first rounder on Shinkaruk, took Virtanen at #6 and wasted a 50th overall trading for Linden Vey. The same draft pick that they acquired by dumping Jason Garrison. Ouch.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Meanwhile, the last canuck rookie to score more than 10 goals was Dan Sedin.

Hahahahahaha

[HOWITZER]

The day of the biggest game in five seasons for a team that has done nothing but defy expectation with young players and having the lowest cap payroll in the entire league, and today is the day we start arguing about player development?

One player (read: ONE PLAYER) didn't work out for the organization, from a draft class with 5 players. Two of which (Granlund and Gaudreau) are full-time NHL'ers and a third (Wotherspoon) is on the verge. Sure, Baertschi didn't work out and Brossoit was traded in the Smid trade but come on! 3/5 (heck 3/7 on a typical year) is phenomenal for a team.

[Yrebmi]

I was tempted to think perhaps Baert and the Flames had trouble stemming from culture barriers and change due to him being European, but then along come Markus from the same draft even to blow up that theory.

I wonder if he will complain about adding diving to his game.

Edit - didn't post earlier because I didn't want to bump this thread, but I am actually starting to enjoy this thread. Could become great if Sven (who's comments have nicely destroyed any loyalties I felt to the player) flops in Vancouver.
V=NG2

[sixpacked]

I can't believe this thread is up to 97 pages!! Who gives a flying frack about a player no longer with the team. No wonder women nag on guys who refuse to buy new underwear, it must be in our nature to hang onto things that were once flashy and showed potential

[-TC-]

If this thread could be locked, deleted or burned to the ground that would be awesome...thanks.

[The Fonz]

Stop reading it if you don't like the thread. Very simple concept.