General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Oh snap, Monday... ahh, who cares?

Uh, you do?

[Mazrim]

Happy Monday, everyone.

[MrMastodonFarm]

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by Muta

Uh, you do?

Right now, the team could leave and hockey could never be played again and I wouldn't really care.

I haven't been posting much in this thread lately. I'm jaded towards hockey as a whole lately.

[troutman]

sonu munshi ‏@smunshi
Hello #Coyotes fans. Look forward to interacting with you. We'll all miss @LisaHalverstadt here in the newsroom. Wish her the best!

[landshark]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Right now, the team could leave and hockey could never be played again and I wouldn't really care.

I haven't been posting much in this thread lately. I'm jaded towards hockey as a whole lately.

This is how my Yokes fan friend is feeling these days. He's been on a parallel path as yours. First confident, watching every little news tidbit. Taking every positive as evidence that we're almost there and every negative just went by unnoticed, but as the days turned to weeks turned to months he is no longer confident and is so upset at everyone involved that he claims that he just doesn't care anymore...

I know that lots here have fun poking at PHO fans, but there ARE fans there and they are going through fan hell of the worst kind right now...

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by landshark

This is how my Yokes fan friend is feeling these days. He's been on a parallel path as yours. First confident, watching every little news tidbit. Taking every positive as evidence that we're almost there and every negative just went by unnoticed, but as the days turned to weeks turned to months he is no longer confident and is so upset at everyone involved that he claims that he just doesn't care anymore...

I know that lots here have fun poking at PHO fans, but there ARE fans there and they are going through fan hell of the worst kind right now...

All 6 of em!

Fair enough Bouw is going through a rough time, and I'm sure other true fans are too. And no, none of us would want to be there or even wish it on someone else. But for the health of the franchise and the league I don't think there should be a team there. And it still does feel like a bit of a slap in the face when there are markets in Canada that would treat it so much better.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by troutman

sonu munshi ‏@smunshi
Hello #Coyotes fans. Look forward to interacting with you. We'll all miss @LisaHalverstadt here in the newsroom. Wish her the best!

If this Sonu just thinks he can waltz in here and have our hearts like Ms. Halverstadt he's got another thing coming!

What kind of name is Sonu anyway?!

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

You've got to admire the precedent that has been set in Glendale. Not only has the city built and provided a free arena, they also subsidize the team so it will stay. Next time a team threatens to leave unless the government builds them an arena, they can also insist on a government yearly subsidy. I think the whole pro sports system is moving into the world of absurdity.

did you hear about Katz a couple of weeks back when the arena was revealed to be over budget?

katz had the gall to say the team was subsidizing the arena and used Glendale as the example (since the argument is the arena would be a white elephant if there is no major tenant)...

uh...katz? Maybe Edmonton would be smart and NOT BUILD THE FREAKING THING!?

Talk about Orwellian doublespeak ...

and now Katz is trying to play chicken by going to seattle for a look around...

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

did you hear about Katz a couple of weeks back when the arena was revealed to be over budget?

katz had the gall to say the team was subsidizing the arena and used Glendale as the example (since the argument is the arena would be a white elephant if there is no major tenant)...

uh...katz? Maybe Edmonton would be smart and NOT BUILD THE FREAKING THING!?

Talk about Orwellian doublespeak ...

and now Katz is trying to play chicken by going to seattle for a look around...

Winnipeg and Pittsburgh already give a yearly subsidy to the Jets and Penguins.

a gaming subsidy similar to what the Winnipeg Jets and Pittsburgh Penguins receive in their new deals. In Winnipeg, the team gets $12 million a year in operating subsidies, Staples said, a portion coming from gaming.

http://daveberta.ca/2012/09/david-staples-katz-arena/

and here's Mario on visiting other cities.

Similarly, after successfully using relocation threats to get the city of Pittsburgh to help fund a new hockey arena, Penguins owner and NHL legend Mario Lemieux admitted, "Our goal was to remain here in Pittsburgh all the way. Those trips to Kansas City and Vegas and other cities was just to go, and have a nice dinner and come back.... That was just a way for us to put more pressure, and we knew it would work at the end of the day." (It's also worth noting that even in those few cities where teams have moved, no local elected official has yet been voted out of office as a result. A Wisconsin state senator who cast the deciding vote for a new Brewers stadium in 1995 did, however, become his state's first legislator to be recalled by voters.)

https://www.npr.org/2011/08/05/13901...ports-stadiums

[troutman]

Live updates: Glendale special meeting to address budget issues

Glendale's budget crisis is in voters' hands

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...g-storify.html

Councilwoman Clark: with decreased revenue, there must be cuts. There is no option. And don't blame it on the Coyotes.

Alvarez: if we don't have the money, we shouldn't spend it on the Coyotes or on legal fees.

Lieberman: "I really think we could do without the Coyotes."

Skeete: If sales tax goes away but they renegotiate arena management deal and restructure Camelback deal, they are still short

Councilwoman Clark said she will be saying very little at this workshop.

[Daradon]

Death knell?

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Winnipeg and Pittsburgh already give a yearly subsidy to the Jets and Penguins.

I am sure lots of cities do that. However, the reasoning is what I was laughing at. The hockey team wouldn't need to subsidize anything if the city councils don't build new arenas.

Glendale is being held hostage because the taxpayers would be on the hook even more (according to those who support the coyotes remaining) if there is no tenant. IF there were no new arena to pay for, there tepid support for the Coyotes remaining would evaporate.

If a city wants to pay out 400 million for an arena, then, yes, there needs to be a pro franchise there to "subsidize" its construction cost. But Katz is putting the cart before the horse: Edmonton doesn't have to build anything, and therefore, a team "subsidizing" the arena costs are unnecessary.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

I am sure lots of cities do that. However, the reasoning is what I was laughing at. The hockey team wouldn't need to subsidize anything if the city councils don't build new arenas.

Glendale is being held hostage because the taxpayers would be on the hook even more (according to those who support the coyotes remaining) if there is no tenant. IF there were no new arena to pay for, there tepid support for the Coyotes remaining would evaporate.

If a city wants to pay out 400 million for an arena, then, yes, there needs to be a pro franchise there to "subsidize" its construction cost. But Katz is putting the cart before the horse: Edmonton doesn't have to build anything, and therefore, a team "subsidizing" the arena costs are unnecessary.

Oh sure, pro sports teams and their expensive facilities don't make financial sense. I even called it absurd in one post but if you want your toys, they come with a price.

Industry shops around in different areas for the best tax breaks, access, cheap labour, etc. before building, so it's a competitive atmosphere. The same sort of blackmail is now done by sports teams.

[troutman]

Revised arena agreement would see prospective Coyotes owner Jamison receive less in first five years


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4577333/

Horatio Skeete negotiated a reduction of the payments in the first five years to about $72-million, with the payments in the final 15 years being raised to keep the overall cost of the lease to the city at $324-million.

[troutman]

Coyotes Ugly

Arizona’s long owner-less NHL franchise will play in Glendale for at least another season. But will the city’s latest dowry deal go through?

http://www.phoenixmag.com/lifestyle/.../coyotes-ugly/

[troutman]

Glendale council meets to discuss Phoenix Coyotes deal

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...g-storify.html

Under the new proposed agreement, Glendale would pay $320 million over 20 years, instead of $324 million, with most of the money going to Jamison to manage the city-owned arena.

The difference would be that Glendale would pay $308 million for arena management instead of $300 million, with lower payments in the early years. Payments for capital improvements over 20 years would come down from $24 million to $12 million.

Some other terms and conditions were also included. There are incentives for the arena manager to bring additional events to Jobing.com Arena, and Glendale would have lower management-fee payments in the event of a National Hockey League lockout or strike.

A council majority appeared to favor the reworked deal. Councilwoman Joyce Clark thanked Jamison for sticking through a renegotiation.

The city manager will bring a draft deal back to the council in the coming weeks for another round of discussion and possibly a vote. Jamison has yet to buy the team, but finalizing this part of the deal is a crucial step toward bringing the Coyotes' three-year ownership woes to a close and keeping the team in Arizona.

It is unclear whether the council would approve the deal as an emergency measure, allowing it to take immediate effect.

Without that, the deal would take effect in 30 days. Residents could seek to overturn the vote with a ballot measure.

Ken Jones, one of the residents behind the previous attempted referendum, was outside the Council chambers Tuesday. He handed out fliers opposing the deal and in support of the temporary sales-tax hike repeal. He was prepared to put another referendum on the ballot to oppose the new deal, if it's possible, Jones said.

[troutman]

Glendale's sports dream turning into a nightmare

Big investments putting financial strain on city

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...nightmare.html

[troutman]

sonu munshi ‏@smunshi
Skeete says the average hockey game brings about 9,000 people to arena in regular season.

Far less than the 12,000 figure that gets reported

[Coach]

I wonder how they could work that emergency measure since the biggest (and only?) tenant is currently locked out.