Former Flames player performance thread - 2022/23 season

[Jason14h]

We’re now at the point of arguing if MT will be better then a player everyone associates with the Flames …… Brett Hull

Pedantic .

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Saqe

He was using Hull's 86 goal season as an argument why Hull is better than Tkachuck. I made the point that comparing stats in different eras is pointless. What's your point? That Hull is better scoring goals that Tkachuk? Fine, but Ovechkin is also better that Hull and he never scored 86 so his whole point is moot.

My point is Tkachuk has a long way to go to catch those guys.

Ovechkin has a better career than Hull but I am not sure if he would have scored 86 back then. Only 2 guys have done it.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

We’re now at the point of arguing if MT will be better then a player everyone associates with the Flames …… Brett Hull

Pedantic .

Somebody said it, it's obviously going to get called out

"Well on his way to being the best player drafted by the Flames" is lol worthy

[Snuffleupagus]

Button lost his job because of the way he handled Savard, Treliving should loose his job because of the way he handled Tkachuk.

Yes, I pissed off

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Button lost his job because of the way he handled Savard, Treliving should loose his job because of the way he handled Tkachuk.

Yes, I pissed off

It’s more likely how Sutter handled Tkachuk.

[Strange Brew]

In any case, two 100 point seasons by age 25 is something.

How he plays in the playoffs going to be interesting as hell.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Saqe

He was using Hull's 86 goal season as an argument why Hull is better than Tkachuck. I made the point that comparing stats in different eras is pointless. What's your point? That Hull is better scoring goals that Tkachuk? Fine, but Ovechkin is also better that Hull and he never scored 86 so his whole point is moot.

Hull's 86 goals came in the lowest scoring season between 1978-1993. Only Gretzky ever scored more (92, 87), then Lemieux at 85 before a drop to 76.

The 86 goals stands on its own merit. Though it was sandwiched between 70+ goal seasons for a stretch of 228 goals in 231 gp). Speaking of which, there have been 14 70+ goal seasons by 8 different players, and Hull has three of them.


Since 94-95 the highest goal seasons are Lemieux 69 (3.14 avg goals that season) and Ovy 65 (2.78 = about median over 30 years). McDavid has 64 this year (3.18 = highest in 30 years)

In that same span there have been 78 100+ pt seasons. Tkachuk now has two of them, and they came in the two highest scoring seasons in that span.

If we shrink the span to 1997-2021 the highest scoring season becomes 3.08 after the missed season, and there are still 50 100+ seasons.

95-96 = 3.14 --> 12x100pt seasons (and a bunch more over the 1.22 pgp mark)
21-22 = 3.14 --> 8x100pt seasons
22-23 = 3.18 --> currently 8, but could easily be 12 or 13 by season end.


100+ points is always impressive, but it hasn't been a particularly rare feat lately. Whereas Hull (and Ovi's) seasons are totally exceptional.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Button lost his job because of the way he handled Savard, Treliving should loose his job because of the way he handled Tkachuk.

Yes, I pissed off

It’s more likely how Sutter handled Tkachuk.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It’s more likely how Sutter handled Tkachuk.

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It’s more likely how Sutter handled Tkachuk.

You don't have to tell me twice

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It’s more likely how Sutter handled Tkachuk.

It's more likely the weather tbh

[powderjunkie]

I think my favourite trivia from Hull's 86 goal season is that the next highest scorer that year had 51 goals (3 guys tied; Neely only played 69gp, while Hull played 78). Only 23 guys scored 35+ goals that year. So Hull could've split the last 35 and been 1st and 23rd in league scoring that year.

The year before it was Hull 72 - Yzerman 62.
The year after was Hull 70 - Stevens 54.

Gretzky 92 - Bossy 64
Gretzky 87 - Goulet 56
Lemieux 85 - Nicholls 70

In those 3 years that Hull scored 228, the next highest were:
Yzerman at 158 (7 more gp)
Robitaille 141 (5 more gp)
Lafontaine 141 (25 fewer gp)

In 3 years were Gretzky totalled 250, Bossy managed 175 in 8 fewer games

[blender]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well on his way to be better than Hall, Nuewy, Big Al?

Wat?

You do realize Hull had an 86 goal season right lol

5th leading goal scorer of all time with 741

Let's not be silly here

Ok. I will freely admit I forgot about Hull. I could revert to the "he barely played for them" defense, but my OP references Fox, so, touche.

I think my point still has merit, but the bar is higher than I thought.

[jayswin]

Dino7c is all in on this Tkachuck smear campaign so you gotta do better, lol.

[blender]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Somebody said it, it's obviously going to get called out

"Well on his way to being the best player drafted by the Flames" is lol worthy

Fine, lol away. He will be among the best, barring injury.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Dino7c is all in on this Tkachuck smear campaign so you gotta do better, lol.

Yeah for saying he isn't above HOFers because of two stellar seasons

It was obviously a ridiculously bad take

He said he forgot about Hull but doubled down when someone brought him up.

Also Iggy is in the convo...art Ross and multiple rockets. He was legit the best player in the league at one time. Tkachuk is what 43 points off the art Ross? 20 some goals off the rocket

Tkachuk starts winning major league awards like all the others and we can talk

Ross, Hart, con Smythe, Rocket

He is not the best player ever drafted by the Flames, and not on his way....come on now

[Strange Brew]

Over/under on number of Dino posts in this thread? I’m setting the line at 187.5 posts, an even 10% of the thread content.

[blender]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Yeah for saying he isn't above HOFers because of two stellar seasons

It was obviously a ridiculously bad take

He said he forgot about Hull but doubled down when someone brought him up.

Also Iggy is in the convo...art Ross and multiple rockets. He was legit the best player in the league at one time. Tkachuk is what 43 points off the art Ross? 20 some goals off the rocket

Tkachuk starts winning major league awards like all the others and we can talk

Ross, Hart, con Smythe, Rocket

He is not the best player ever drafted by the Flames, and not on his way....come on now

Iggy wasn't drafted by by the Flames.

I've already admitted I went too far with my comparison, but when he gets his 700th I'll be bumping this thread

[FanIn80]

Is Matthew Tkachuk the best NHLer behind Connor McDavid?

Matt Larkin: Tkachuk has been absolutely dominant. He has 30 points more than his next closest teammate, and that’s why I do believe Matthew Tkachuk should and will get serious Hart Trophy votes, maybe second or third place, he’s very similar to Taylor Hall in the year he won it in 2017-18.

But the dominance of Tkachuk, I don’t think people understand, it’s not just a second straight 105 point season. In terms of the scoring chances, the margin of when Tkachuk is on the ice at 5-on-5, it’s 797-497. That’s how much the ice tilts in Florida’s favour with Tkachuk out there.

Steven Ellis: So, when you first mentioned that earlier today, I laughed. I just thought there’s no way. And then I was going through the numbers, and going through everything, and I just couldn’t come up with someone better, to be honest. I feel like last week we were talking about how good Mitch Marner was, but he’s not doing what Matthew Tkachuk’s been able to do.

He’s been getting back-to-back 100 point seasons on different teams with different linemates, and in this case he’s doing it on a team that had to really claw their way back to the playoff race. I’ll give you credit, you brought it up a few weeks or even a few months ago saying that you predicted the Panthers were going to make a run to make the playoffs, and they were out of the playoffs at that time, and now it’s looking like a pretty good bet.

But Tkachuk just does it all. A guy that can be so good out of each zone, but also gets physical. If I had a favourite player, it probably would be him, because I like those guys that can be that agitator that can get in your head, but can also make up for it in offense. He’s not like he’s just there to make you mad. He can make you mad, and then he can also score a hat trick against you. So, I think when it comes to Tkachuk, I can’t disagree there.

https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/news/is...yer-in-the-nhl

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by blender

Iggy wasn't drafted by by the Flames.

I've already admitted I went too far with my comparison, but when he gets his 700th I'll be bumping this thread

Lol well mistakes happen to the best of us obviously

[Brodie66]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Is Matthew Tkachuk the best NHLer behind Connor McDavid?

He's not better than MacKinnon, so no. And probably at least 10 other players but I only had to name one.