Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Eh felt bad publishing it publicly. Suffice to say I'm unhappy with how they handled this

You don’t need to feel bad about publishing it, it’s out there and very unfortunate tactic for the ganley team. We have one shot to depose this version of the UCP, she should focus her efforts in why she is the candidate to do this. Unfortunately this is reminiscent of the NDP election campaign, which was run pretty poorly in my opinion.

[Slava]

I don’t think it’s a big deal. Of course the other leadership candidates are going to take a run at him. He’s basically the front runner as soon as he announces and if you’re not, you want him to engage with you and bring you into the conversation. And of course the other candidates think he’s a poorer choice than them…that’s why they’re running.

I did laugh at the idea that the UCP is salivating over facing Nenshi though. A party that scraped a win out because their opponent handed them the election and has stumbled from questionable decision to questionable decision can’t be super pleased to have a high profile opponent who’s going to call them out on this. They’d be far better off facing an unknown with no cache, and we all know that. It’s posturing plain and simple.

And good for Carter saying he’s not a team player. He’s probably working for another campaign anyway.

[Ozy_Flame]

Candidates in leadership election campaign take potshots at other candidates during campaign. A tale as old as democracy. News at 11.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Whynotnow

You don’t need to feel bad about publishing it, it’s out there and very unfortunate tactic for the ganley team. We have one shot to depose this version of the UCP, she should focus her efforts in why she is the candidate to do this. Unfortunately this is reminiscent of the NDP election campaign, which was run pretty poorly in my opinion.

Hasty edit; I'd posted my disagreeable email back to Ganley's team (whereby I called them credulous morons in a slightly roundabout way for believing/jumping on the UCP narrative).

[Locke]

Well they're not wrong in calling Nenshi 'mother of all target-rich environments.'

That seems accurate enough, but if they think he's going to stand there and be their dartboard they are going to be disappointed.

And if they're 'rubbing their hands in glee' then...my first instinct is that these people have an outlandish opinion of their own intelligence and abilities, and they might be sorry about that.

[getbak]

I'm sure those are the same people who thought Bill Smith was going to tear Nenshi apart.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by getbak

I'm sure those are the same people who thought Bill Smith was going to tear Nenshi apart.

The election vs. Bill Smith with Nenshi's first direct experience with Take Back Alberta style background forces in their infancy. These forces have become far more sophisticated with resources both inside and outside the province/country. He will be ready for it, but it's difficult to say what their reach will be like a full 3 years from now.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

The election vs. Bill Smith with Nenshi's first direct experience with Take Back Alberta style background forces in their infancy. These forces have become far more sophisticated with resources both inside and outside the province/country. He will be ready for it, but it's difficult to say what their reach will be like a full 3 years from now.

You know. I cant pretend to know a lot about the 'Take Back Alberta' movement because I think its silly.

But I get it the impression its comprised largely of wealthy old men who made bank when Oil was high? I've run into a lot of these guys and some of them are incredibly intelligent and well educated.

But there is also an enormous segment who refuse to acknowledge or comprehend the reality that they were in the right place at the right time and got lucky.

I run into this with some of my friends' parents all the time.

I remember one guy who made millions in construction.

"You just cant run a business in Alberta anymore!"

Sure you can. I do it. You just were never any good. You got lucky. You provided a intensely desired service at a time when there was a gap in the market and everyone had tons of money to throw around. When those circumstances changed you hadnt developed any skills and couldnt cope against people who had, and so you took your ball and went home.

And they dont like that answer because it indicts them. Tough.

So now they need to 'Take Back Alberta?' Take it back from Whom? And if they say 'The Feds' there is a swift kick to the balls imminently incoming.

[Fuzz]

TBA doesn't want to take us back 20 years, they want to take us back 200.

[Canadianman]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I was wondering when some of the long time NDP faithful and especially the further left would start commenting about Nenshi. I especially curious what they will have to say if Nenshi does get into the race by special exception because of the party membership rule.

This is why I wish we had a new center/moderate party in Alberta. Start fresh and pull all the good people from the UCP and NDP. Leave the far right and far left to serve the fringe minorities.

This boils down to a marketing problem by the ANDP. They ARE the center/moderate party. They just need to acknowledge that and change their name.


My hope is Nenshi wins the leadership election. Merges with the Alberta Party for their name and crushes it in the next election. Then the super left-leaning Dippers can leave to form a new party if they want, but at least we will get one 4 year period to try to undo some of the mess the UCP is creating.

[PepsiFree]

I thought I posted this already but maybe I forgot to hit the reply button. Probably for the best, as I’m a little less angry now, but this looks really dumb on Team Ganley imo.

Sure, Ganley wants to be the leader and Nenshi is going to make that difficult. I get it. Nothing wrong with campaigning. But this is the EXACT same garbage that lost the NDP the election. They’re entirely too focused on character traits of the opposition and struggle to bring anything of substance to the table that convinces people “why them,” they’re obsessed with “why not the other person.” If this is any indication of how they’re going to operate in an election, Ganley is going to be a huge mistake. What an idiot.

Do they honestly think the UCP are scared of them or that Calgary is any safer with Ganley as leader over Nenshi? Delusional.

[Canadianman]

Originally Posted by Slava

...

I did laugh at the idea that the UCP is salivating over facing Nenshi though. A party that scraped a win out because their opponent handed them the election and has stumbled from questionable decision to questionable decision can’t be super pleased to have a high profile opponent who’s going to call them out on this. They’d be far better off facing an unknown with no cache, and we all know that. It’s posturing plain and simple...

It's pure gaslighting/reverse psychology by the UCP. They know they are unpopular and by the time the next election rolls around and people are starting to see what chronically underfunding education and health care is doing to our Province, they will get DESTROYED by a moderate like Nenshi.

[Canadianman]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Hasty edit; I'd posted my disagreeable email back to Ganley's team (whereby I called them credulous morons in a slightly roundabout way for believing/jumping on the UCP narrative).

haha, I'll post mine if you post yours! I wasn't quite rude, but I did say they if they believe the gaslighting by the UCP, they are insane.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Canadianman

This boils down to a marketing problem by the ANDP. They ARE the center/moderate party. They just need to acknowledge that and change their name.


My hope is Nenshi wins the leadership election. Merges with the Alberta Party for their name and crushes it in the next election. Then the super left-leaning Dippers can leave to form a new party if they want, but at least we will get one 4 year period to try to undo some of the mess the UCP is creating.

I only said that 6 years ago! Since then they lost elections to 2 subhumans in Kenney and Smith. Burn the orange!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Canadianman

It's pure gaslighting/reverse psychology by the UCP. They know they are unpopular and by the time the next election rolls around and people are starting to see what chronically underfunding education and health care is doing to our Province, they will get DESTROYED by a moderate like Nenshi.

No, by next election the UCP will have funding announcements all over the place and promises of tax cuts that will be canceled if the NDP get in, and the gullible moronic electorate will fall for it...again. We've ridden around in circles on this ride long enough, lets not pretend it will be any different.

[Muta]

I'm just over here getting giddy for potential Nenshi / Marlaina debates. TBH, that's what excites me the most. He will absolutely mop the floor with her.

The UCP says they're excited to take on Nenshi if he runs? The UCP is gonna #### around and find out.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Canadianman

This boils down to a marketing problem by the ANDP. They ARE the center/moderate party. They just need to acknowledge that and change their name.


My hope is Nenshi wins the leadership election. Merges with the Alberta Party for their name and crushes it in the next election. Then the super left-leaning Dippers can leave to form a new party if they want, but at least we will get one 4 year period to try to undo some of the mess the UCP is creating.

Yeah. And Nenshi is a pragmatist, not a true believer leftist, so he'd be vastly more willing to do that I suspect.

Reputational inertia is a powerful thing. People still think the UCP is the old PC party, and they still think the ANDP is Grant Notley's group of labour lefties. If the ANDP wants to be the government on a regular basis they need to not be that party and instead be perceived as moderate and sensible. If they could be the Alberta Party with "the common sense party" as a tagline they'd win a lot of votes, and it would give them a platform to contrast basic blocking and tackling governance with the tire-fire of the UCP. They need to do both to win - show the UCP are idiots AND say what they would do better. Nenshi is clearly the communicator for that role, imo. The other choices are worse than Notley - NDP lifer/true believer types but without her name recognition.

[edslunch]

NDP is going to NDP this and not let him run, aren’t they?

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by edslunch

NDP is going to NDP this and not let him run, aren’t they?

It's like the UCP and NDP and hell, every political party is ran by the mastermind of Kevin Lowe.

[belsarius]

Well this is an enlightening discussion showing why FPTP is so terrible. As an actual NDPer (as opposed to anti-UCPers) I am fully behind Ganley on this, Nenshi is not really a part of the NDP group and braintrust so for him to parachute in is kind of a slap in the face.

What I am seeing is a bunch of people annoyed at the Conservatives in this province and wanting a change, but they want the other party to bend to their needs. For me, that's not what this should be about at all. Politics has devolved into a team sport about who can "win elections". Nobody seems to really care about the ANDP party, they just want someone to stop the UCP. Change the name, change the leader, change the direction, change the focus.

Piss off and leave my party alone. If you don't agree with their stances, then don't vote for them, vote for someone you believe in, don't change my party into something you want simply because you don't like the UCP.

And this is where the FPTP is causing all of the issues. The "centrist" people feel left out and want someone to vote for. Fine, then Nenshi should go run for the Alberta Party and create that space, not steal the base from a party. Will that take votes away from the NDP, split the rest and cause the UCP to win. Probably, but that's how it should work.

I don't vote for a side to win at all costs, I vote for the party whose policies and ideologies I support and identify with. And to be honest, the last couple years of the NDP in power and their campaigning since has pushed me farther from them than anything else. They settled into a nice centre, if not centre-right position to get votes, but it still wasn't enough. Sold their soul for another chance to govern and lost.

So you don't like the left ideals? Fine, then go find a new party to vote for, but this push to change the colour, change the name, basically destroy the NDP in this province simply to win an election pisses me off. Some of us have voted for the NDP since they were a 1 person caucus. Not because we believed we could win the government, but because we wanted someone in the legislature that would be our voice.